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28 Mar 2024, 16:12 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Citation S2
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2022, 21:02 
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Joined: 01/12/10
Posts: 396
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Location: Dallas, Texas
Aircraft: Piaggio P180, TTx
Username Protected wrote:
Congratulations! You'll love the Jettech panel and your SII; I have an entire parts SII behind my hangar with absolutely nothing advertised so if you need any weird pumps or TKS panels, brakes, avionics or gauges, I have them. Pay for the options to refinish all the EL panels; makes a huge difference on the panel upgrade. I've done both black and gray and the black looks stunning. I'm glad you were able to work something out with STEC, that's a huge service to the Citation community you are doing so thank you! Hopefully, that will trickle down to the other models.



Will the STEC help “unlock” the Primus equipped aircraft and allow replacing the avionics with Garmin?


Not sure. I know they are about to release the Citation V first with the STEC autopilot (June I hear). The S-2 is next. Pretty sure it will follow on up the line.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation S2
PostPosted: 21 May 2022, 13:20 
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Joined: 06/25/20
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Company: Baja Expeditions Nautilus Dive
Aircraft: S550 206L citabria
Michael Tarver. sir.. question for you. We are looking for a pressurization controller for our williams S2. having a really weird pressurization issue with the airplane that is defying trouble shooting. wondering if you still have the S550 and parting it out. I really appreciate your collection of airplanes!!


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 Post subject: Re: Citation S2
PostPosted: 21 May 2022, 13:32 
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
having a really weird pressurization issue with the airplane that is defying trouble shooting.

Can you provide details?

Some chance I can help debug it based on your observations.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation S2
PostPosted: 21 May 2022, 14:21 
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Joined: 03/04/13
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Location: Little Rock, Ar
Aircraft: A36 C560 C551 C550S
Username Protected wrote:
Michael Tarver. sir.. question for you. We are looking for a pressurization controller for our williams S2. having a really weird pressurization issue with the airplane that is defying trouble shooting. wondering if you still have the S550 and parting it out. I really appreciate your collection of airplanes!!


I’m not Mike, and I’m not trying to be snippy, but it will be a lot easier if you would list the part number of the part you need. Especially since you have a modified airplane.

Robert T


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 Post subject: Re: Citation S2
PostPosted: 21 May 2022, 14:55 
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Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
I’m not Mike, and I’m not trying to be snippy, but it will be a lot easier if you would list the part number of the part you need. Especially since you have a modified airplane.

From the S550 IPC:

Controller: 130356-15 (original), 130356-16 (improved)

It will be specific to the S550. This is the device you dial in the altitudes on the center console.

Textron has 3 units, 2 at KMKE, 1 at KTPA service centers.

Cost is $18,520 exchange with $22,000 core deposit.

Might try salvage yards.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation S2
PostPosted: 22 May 2022, 17:37 
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Company: Baja Expeditions Nautilus Dive
Aircraft: S550 206L citabria
Mike C. Thank you!! I received some very helpful advice and trouble shooting yesterday. I'm hopeful we might have found the problem. However, your trouble shooting skills are legendary. I'd really appreciate your ideas.

The problem started as a minor issue and then devolved into random craziness over the next number of flights as we get the airplane home and then down to Portland and then Uvalde for maintenance.

Flight #1 ; pulled the power back for descent from 410. cabin started climbing (which it never does). added power to something like 55% and problem went away

Flight #2 ; climbed to FL310. cabin climbed to 7500' which is much higher than it should have been. tried moving selector to L. no difference. R. no difference. back to All

Flight #3 ; climbed to FL310. everything fine at first and then cabin climbed to 11,000 ft. cycled everything. no change. after 20 minutes, cabin descended to 7500'

Flight #4; everything fine and cabin pressurizing normally until FL340 when the cabin started climbing 2000 FPM and stabilized at 15,000 ft. cycled everything. cabin came down on EMER at 2000 fpm. fine on emer. off EMER it climbed back to 15,000. cabin alt descended on aircraft descent and was normal at landing

ferried airplane to FLIGHTCRAFT at PDX. noted that the cabin pressure climbed to 4.1 psi and stayed there. flightcraft checked outflow valves, pressure checked the cabin, put the airplane on jacks to check squat switches. could not find any problem

ferried the airplane to UVALDE. cabin pressurized to 3.9. experimented all the way down. noted that the cabin would sometimes climb on ALL or L. and then come down on R. sometimes it wouldn't. also discovered that if I turned the temperature select up to max heat, I could gain 1.2 to 1.3 psi. emer still worked normally and brought cabin alt down at 2000 FPM. airplane pressurized normally on every takeoff and initial climb. problem didn't start until aprox 3.9 - 4.1 psi.

airplane was scheduled for Phase 1 - 5 at Uvalde. we did a test flight before taking it apart. takeoff and initial climb are fine. ACM is fine. outflow valves are fine. vacuum lines were leak checked ok. fittings are fine. flow packs are fine. it seems that the problem got worse over 4 flights and then stabilized without any further degeneration.

That's the short story....


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 Post subject: Re: Citation S2
PostPosted: 22 May 2022, 20:15 
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Aircraft: G44, C501, C55, R66
Hi Mike,

I know we spoke yesterday and I gave you my opinion. But, we should get Mike C's opinion also. The randomness of the situation is confusing. Some of the different scenarios below indicate different problems I've solved.


The problem started as a minor issue and then devolved into random craziness over the next number of flights as we get the airplane home and then down to Portland and then Uvalde for maintenance.

Flight #1 ; pulled the power back for descent from 410. cabin started climbing (which it never does). added power to something like 55% and problem went away

When I've seen this it's always a cabin air leak. The usual suspects are the outside sealant around the aft rear spar carry through or a loose ACM hose. An amazon smoke machine with an electric power inverter (if no AC plug) can find this real quickly by pressurizing it on the ground.


Flight #2 ; climbed to FL310. cabin climbed to 7500' which is much higher than it should have been. tried moving selector to L. no difference. R. no difference. back to All

Also seems to indicate a major cabin leak

Flight #3 ; climbed to FL310. everything fine at first and then cabin climbed to 11,000 ft. cycled everything. no change. after 20 minutes, cabin descended to 7500'

This flight totally contradicts the theory in 1 and 2 seems to indicate the rotary selector switch

Flight #4; everything fine and cabin pressurizing normally until FL340 when the cabin started climbing 2000 FPM and stabilized at 15,000 ft. cycled everything. cabin came down on EMER at 2000 fpm. fine on emer. off EMER it climbed back to 15,000. cabin alt descended on aircraft descent and was normal at landing

This flight also supports a bad rotary switch but also supports the bad ACM or loose hose theory. The fact that it holds the cabin in EMER rules out a bad controller, cabin leaks, bad squat switch, bad pneumatic relay or bad outflow valves. This flight added the most diagnostic value IMO. Remember, if the controller failed, their are two little black devices near the outflow valves that will automatically slam the outflow valves shut around 13,000 if the controller indeed gave a signal to open them in flight.

ferried airplane to FLIGHTCRAFT at PDX. noted that the cabin pressure climbed to 4.1 psi and stayed there. flightcraft checked outflow valves, pressure checked the cabin, put the airplane on jacks to check squat switches. could not find any problem

It's very important that they really truly understood that they were actually checking these systems properly. This is masters level college reading IMO. Important to KNOW that they were really smart mechanics and that these issues are truly ruled out.

ferried the airplane to UVALDE. cabin pressurized to 3.9. experimented all the way down. noted that the cabin would sometimes climb on ALL or L. and then come down on R. sometimes it wouldn't. also discovered that if I turned the temperature select up to max heat, I could gain 1.2 to 1.3 psi. emer still worked normally and brought cabin alt down at 2000 FPM. airplane pressurized normally on every takeoff and initial climb. problem didn't start until aprox 3.9 - 4.1 psi.

I like the consistency of the EMER holding the cabin and am more suspicious of the rotary switch solder joints

airplane was scheduled for Phase 1 - 5 at Uvalde. we did a test flight before taking it apart. takeoff and initial climb are fine. ACM is fine. outflow valves are fine. vacuum lines were leak checked ok. fittings are fine. flow packs are fine. it seems that the problem got worse over 4 flights and then stabilized without any further degeneration.

This is the flowchart I would do:

Check that rotary switch, it's suspect or the relay downstream of that that feeds electrical signals to the flow valves. If it's bad, problem solved, if it seems good (no broken solar joints), I'd disconnect the cannon plugs from the left and right flow control bleed valves and go fly the airplane. This will fully open the left and left valves; if it pressurizes fine then I think you've confirmed the switch is likely bad.

Long story short, any Citation will hold the cabin with throttles at idle, on L, on R or EMER. If it's not, you have a problem. The key to trouble shooting this problem is to systemically isolate and determine if you have an air delivery problem or an air leaving problem. This is a 50+ page chapter in the MM and it's hard to summarize any of this here but I think you are on the right track.


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