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 Post subject: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2020, 08:56 
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For those of you interested in Carrier op's, here's the interesting tale of how Capt. Sean McDermott (a close personal friend of mine, and the second best pilot I know) helped pave the way to get the V-22 into the Navy's hands. It took years!

Imagine the politics of removing a 30-year old airframe and bringing a completely new design (and a paradigm shift in how it operates) to the Fleet.

Go NAVY!

https://aircraftcarriermonth.com/cod

(click the link for episode 105)

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 Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2020, 19:00 
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Something I thought of the other day, can a V-22 autorotate?


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 Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2020, 21:42 
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Something I thought of the other day, can a V-22 autorotate?

Probably not, but one engine can drive both proprotors.

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 Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy
PostPosted: 18 Nov 2020, 23:53 
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As a helo turned E2/C2 pilot, I'm waiting to see the non sea level standard day cargo throughput in something that's NOT in CVOA4.

It opens up things other than CVNs, but having to land in conversion mode really kills the capacity.

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 Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2020, 00:01 
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As a helo turned E2/C2 pilot, I'm waiting to see the non sea level standard day cargo throughput in something that's NOT in CVOA4.

It opens up things other than CVNs, but having to land in conversion mode really kills the capacity.



Huh?

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 Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2020, 00:12 
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Casey,
You’re going to have to dumb down those acronyms for those of us uninitiated.
Richard


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 Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2020, 00:14 
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Density altitude kills performance.

It kills RW performance faster than FW performance.

CVOA 4 - CARRIER OPAREA FOUR. Aka REALLY close to the logistics base in Bahrain. Persian Gulf.

Conversion Mode. Think "Helicopter"

A COD could bring 9k aboard in CVOA4 all day in the summer.

A V-22 will probably be 8k.. But when you start to need fuel to divert, can't cruise in the 20s like the C-2, etc, it hurts the capacity at ranges beyond short hop.

I became very not popular with the ACCLOGWING leadership because I gave my honest assessment when asked.

But, I was also the only guy in the room that had ever flown a helicopter, at max gross, in the Gulf in the room.

But "You are only a LT, and I flew the 60S at Pax River". Yeah.. Cooler, less humid, and way lighter (lightest 60 variant the Navy owns) from the leadership.

These are the same people who told me I was wrong when I pointed out the procedures for fail to feather were incorrect.

Of course, after people died due to NAVAIR's Hubris, I was then lambasted for not pushing back hard enough.

The decision the COD is coming was made LONG before the throughput and other mission suitability was created.

For the VOD mission aside from super heavy lift? It would be FANTASTIC for the non VERTREP PMC mission. As a COD replacement? It's not ideal. But it was that, or it was that.



Although I'm in a bit of a FTN (F^&C the Navy) mood today, because I had passed up a couple decent jobs in the last couple months with impending furloughs, because I was going on a year long deployment starting next Friday.

They cancelled it today, and turned off my health insurance with my wife scheduled for a medical procedure Friday.

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 Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2020, 00:25 
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%#$@ me, what's he saying?

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 Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2020, 00:28 
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Although I'm in a bit of a FTN (F^&C the Navy) mood today, because I had passed up a couple decent jobs in the last couple months with impending furloughs, because I was going on a year long deployment starting next Friday.

They cancelled it today, and turned off my health insurance with my wife scheduled for a medical procedure Friday.


That's bullshit!!!! Really bullshit. People serving this fine country should be given medical care and caviar and champagne, nightly!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2020, 08:29 
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%#$@ me, what's he saying?

I guess some people really like to talk in code. Maybe he doesn't want anyone to know what he's saying?

;)


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 Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2020, 09:18 
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Username Protected wrote:
%#$@ me, what's he saying?

I guess some people really like to talk in code. Maybe he doesn't want anyone to know what he's saying?

;)


A few months into my training in the Navy, during a conversation with my mother, she told me to repeat everything, but this time use words rather than sounds.

The forces are very good at indoctrination, and getting you to use acronyms.
I've noticed it's the same with airlines.
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 Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2020, 09:26 
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Username Protected wrote:
A few months into my training in the Navy, during a conversation with my mother, she told me to repeat everything, but this time use words rather than sounds.

The forces are very good at indoctrination, and getting you to use acronyms.
I've noticed it's the same with airlines.


Everyone needs a https://tinyurl.com/DICNAVAB :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2020, 09:33 
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I understood everything, what language do you guys speak?

Small world, but the commodore of the Navy's V-22 wing was my formation partner in advanced helicopter training many years ago. Dewon is a friend, a good pilot, and a great naval officer. For better or for worse, now it's his job to make the Osprey fit in to this mission as well as possible.

For the guys stumped by some of Casey's jargon, when lifting heavy stuff there are some inescapable truths in aerodynamics: big wings and propellers can lift more than little wings and little rotors. The V-22 trades some capability for versatility- it can bring certain sized cargo directly from the airport to the flight deck of a cruiser or the landing zone/forest clearing/soccer field in a conflict area or natural disaster, it can bypass the destination airport or the aircraft carrier (as applicable), and it can do it faster than a helicopter... as long as that cargo is within a certain size and weight. But in airplane mode it's like an inefficient turboprop: it's not pressurized so it can't go up high, and it is propelled by big, clumsy propellers.

Everything in aviation is a compromise.


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 Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2020, 10:33 
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Username Protected wrote:
I've noticed it's the same with airlines.
...and NASA.


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 Post subject: Re: V-22 Osprey Replaces C-2 for COD - World's GREATEST Navy
PostPosted: 19 Nov 2020, 11:30 
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Username Protected wrote:
I understood everything, what language do you guys speak?

Small world, but the commodore of the Navy's V-22 wing was my formation partner in advanced helicopter training many years ago. Dewon is a friend, a good pilot, and a great naval officer. For better or for worse, now it's his job to make the Osprey fit in to this mission as well as possible.

For the guys stumped by some of Casey's jargon, when lifting heavy stuff there are some inescapable truths in aerodynamics: big wings and propellers can lift more than little wings and little rotors. The V-22 trades some capability for versatility- it can bring certain sized cargo directly from the airport to the flight deck of a cruiser or the landing zone/forest clearing/soccer field in a conflict area or natural disaster, it can bypass the destination airport or the aircraft carrier (as applicable), and it can do it faster than a helicopter... as long as that cargo is within a certain size and weight. But in airplane mode it's like an inefficient turboprop: it's not pressurized so it can't go up high, and it is propelled by big, clumsy propellers.

Everything in aviation is a compromise.


Compromises, sure, but I'm not buying the distributed ops construct the V-22 gang peddles. I have yet to see a picture of an Osprey on a Flight IIA or CG deck (does the ramp open up in to the nets?). Don't even get me started about the notion of "Princess" doing VERTREP (y'all know she's time limited with the engines pointed North/South, right?).

I too know "Chainsaw" and I wish him the best with VRM, but lets not kid ourselves; this was a BA vs NG decision with a little of USMC thrown in and its a subpar solution to what was in place.

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