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19 Jun 2021, 13:29 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Zlin Savage Norden
PostPosted: 29 May 2020, 11:36 
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Joined: 12/12/16
Posts: 29
Post Likes: +10
Aircraft: Tecnam P2008
Any STOL lovers on here? I’m pretty excited about this bird and I do think it’s a game changer in this market.

The wing is all metal with dual aeronautical spars and tested up to 1765 pounds. The designer won’t divulge the type of airfoil being used but it can’t be a USA35B which was used on the Outback Shock and Shock Ultra models. Wing area cleaned up is 156 sq.ft and with the flaps and slats fully extended that gets a 12% increase to 175 sq.ft.

The flaps are actually custom made by Zlin and are double slotted. That combined with the far reaching electrically operated slats should make for a wonderful combination of slower airspeed at a reduced AOA required for off airport fun.

There is only one place where the slats are going to make a significant difference and the designer of the aircraft has assured me they have achieved that position. If the electric actuator failed for any reason there will always be a symmetrical situation for both wings even close to the ground.

The drooped wingtips are there to effectively increase the local span loading near the tips which should increase the effectiveness of the ailerons at slower speeds. They’ve also been shown to modify the departure stall characteristics to maintain flow near the tips longer as the stall progresses.

The nose has been lowered along with the dashboard to provide enhanced visibility for this reason. Just look at how far the front windscreen extends. The nose high attitude is to maximize the AOA for takeoff and landing. I’m personally excited about this as it will make for an impressive STOL competitor as the Shock Cub’s tailwheel gave up significant AOA on takeoffs.

To top it off power is provided by the Rotax 915 iS at 145 hp for 5 minutes and 135 hp continuous. It’s good for full power up to 15,000 ft!

And no, I don’t work for the company!

I don’t know about y’all, but this is what I’ve been waiting for! Just unbelievable! https://youtu.be/5Olmfj7O4Ec


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 Post subject: Re: Zlin Savage Norden
PostPosted: 29 May 2020, 15:21 
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Joined: 01/23/13
Posts: 4496
Post Likes: +2490
Company: Kokotele Guitar Works
Location: Albany, NY
Aircraft: C-182RG, C-172, PA28
Looks pretty cool!

What's an "aeronautical spar?" Do you mean the struts?


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 Post subject: Re: Zlin Savage Norden
PostPosted: 03 May 2021, 17:00 
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Joined: 12/12/16
Posts: 29
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Aircraft: Tecnam P2008
Here’s an update from Zlin.

800 lbs (363 kg) Savage Norden with Rotax 915?

As we anticipated last February, the prototype has been reworked, to get this empty weight. And we did it.
The target was to offer to the market a lighter version of our plane to improve the STOL performances and with these main characteristics: full metal wing, retractable slats, double slotted flaps, carbon wing tips, 140 lt fuel tanks, "Rotax 915”, carbon cowling and 4 blade propeller, extended landing gear, 22” tires (in these pics we show the 29” ), soft baggage, carbon seats covered with Alcantara, carbon floorboards.
To get these results, we worked on every single detail, using as much as possible, carbon parts and also covering the fuselage with Oratex 6000. In the meantime, and with performances in mind, we have even asked to one our supplier, the propeller manufacturer Propellers E-Props, to build a larger propeller to explore better the STOL performances.
As you can see, we tried to design even a new paint scheme. The Oratex in black, is really nice, but we didn’t want to have and offer a total black plane. We tried to make something different, keeping in mind the final weight increase and painting the plane as less as possible…


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 Post subject: Re: Zlin Savage Norden
PostPosted: 03 May 2021, 21:48 
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Joined: 04/26/13
Posts: 11316
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Location: Columbus , IN (KBAK)
Aircraft: 1968 Baron D55
Instead of a larger diameter 4-blade prop, why not a longer chord 3-blade? That would be more efficient, no?

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 Post subject: Re: Zlin Savage Norden
PostPosted: 03 May 2021, 23:49 
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Aircraft: Tecnam P2008
Exactly, one would think but they’ve tested a bunch of propellers in the past year and the 4 blade E-PROPS has been the best so far. The 80” 4 blade is yielding 771 pounds of thrust!

One of my friends found this on E-PROPS website.

Propulsion efficiency factor is calculated from propeller diameter and engine power. This efficiency factor is the max achievable propeller efficiency. Then, it is up to the propeller designer to come closer to this limit.
The available optimization parameters are :
- number of blades
- blade loading distribution vs span
- chord distribution
- pitch distribution
- airfoil vs span

To increase number of blades allows reducing lift of each blade. So the induced drag of each blade is reduced. But, with a constant chord, this increases the friction drag. And if chord is reduced, Reynolds number decreases and airfoils characteristics are degraded. Use of small chords also leads to mechanical strength issues.

When looking for the optimum load distribution, induced drag must be taken into account. For example, blade tip cannot generate high lift without high induced drag.

Chord optimization leads to use each airfoil at best lift/drag ratio, without forgetting Reynolds variation effects and checking airfoil matching to CL conditions (Reynolds and Mach).

Pitch distribution is used to maintain an optimum lift coefficient to each airfoil in order to get the chosen lift distribution with the optimized chord and airfoil distribution.


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 Post subject: Re: Zlin Savage Norden
PostPosted: 04 May 2021, 23:50 
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Joined: 06/17/14
Posts: 3374
Post Likes: +1122
Location: KJYO
Aircraft: FF-AX7, C-182, BE-95
We have seen them at KOSH and other places - they are landing in distances shorter than their aircraft. In contests isn't the 4 bladed prop a few inches shorter with a larger disk area and allowing for a more effective brake? IIRC, it also allows for better climb trading off a few kts of cruise speed. The difference between a 3 bladed prop and 4 bladed prop isn't going to affect the ability to aggressively brake.

The last "STOL" I flew was an old 182 my boss owned years ago. My idea of a short runway now is VG18 - Sky Bryce in Basye, VA or I41 - Newlon Field outside of Huntington, WV. There is no way that I could do what these young men and women are doing today in competition even with something like the Zlin!


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 Post subject: Re: Zlin Savage Norden
PostPosted: 05 May 2021, 16:13 
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Joined: 01/10/13
Posts: 876
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Location: greenville,ms
Aircraft: baron 58
price i wonder, my j-3 with vg's does most of what i want with a c-85 stroker and a big prop


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 Post subject: Re: Zlin Savage Norden
PostPosted: 05 May 2021, 17:51 
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Joined: 02/04/11
Posts: 150
Post Likes: +49
Aircraft: Grumman AA1B
SportairUSA and Zlin Aviation are excited to announce very attractive introductory pricing on the new, ready to fly Nordens.

EUR 108,449 with ROTAX 912 (100hp)

EUR 123,051 with ROTAX 914 (115hp)

EUR 135,505 with ROTAX 915 (141hp)

The Norden is available with your choice of three engine installations.

The standard instrument panel features combo AS/VSI/ALT electronic flight instrumentation, Garmin Aera 760 GPS, electronic engine management, VHF com radio and transponder. A 406 mHz ELT is included.


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 Post subject: Re: Zlin Savage Norden
PostPosted: 05 May 2021, 18:25 
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Joined: 07/09/09
Posts: 2453
Post Likes: +618
Company: Progress Technical. LLC
Location: Doylestown, PA (KDYL)
Aircraft: B-55
Good Cub-Crafters competition. Very nicely done!

Forgot, MOGAS as well...

--paul


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 Post subject: Re: Zlin Savage Norden
PostPosted: 06 May 2021, 12:49 
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Joined: 01/10/13
Posts: 876
Post Likes: +278
Location: greenville,ms
Aircraft: baron 58
how does that translate to us dollars


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 Post subject: Re: Zlin Savage Norden
PostPosted: 06 May 2021, 16:04 
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Joined: 12/12/16
Posts: 29
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Aircraft: Tecnam P2008
Yes, definitely some good competition for CubCrafters. This wing is tough to beat right now.

135,505 Euros equates to $163,456 USD.


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 Post subject: Re: Zlin Savage Norden
PostPosted: 07 May 2021, 12:42 
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Joined: 05/30/17
Posts: 101
Post Likes: +68
Having owned a CubCrafters FX3, that's a heck of a lot cheaper! CubCrafters is moving in a direction away from super-STOL, however, with the nose wheel cub and the FX3/EX3. Those planes are not stripped in terms of weight, and most are in fact sold with luxury-type upgrades. The XCub, in fact, has an 800-nm range and is billed as a long distance cruiser with 150 mph speed. Only the Carbon Cub SS is really STOL at present. That model starts at 196k, but options quickly move that price up.

The nose wheel cub is a $400k+ airplane and is most definitely NOT targeted at STOL enthusiasts. The FX3/EX3/XCub is targeted at pilots who like unimproved strips and carrying a lot of gear. So I think the Norden will coexist well with the CubCrafters line, to be honest.


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 Post subject: Re: Zlin Savage Norden
PostPosted: 06 Jun 2021, 07:15 
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Joined: 12/12/16
Posts: 29
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Aircraft: Tecnam P2008
Dang! https://youtu.be/S-pLdKLJZuI


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 Post subject: Re: Zlin Savage Norden
PostPosted: 06 Jun 2021, 08:46 
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Joined: 07/10/10
Posts: 700
Post Likes: +335
Location: New Braunfels, TX
Aircraft: Conquest
So safe it’ll just barely kill you.

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----Still emotionally attached to my Baron, but loving my Conquest----


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 Post subject: Re: Zlin Savage Norden
PostPosted: 06 Jun 2021, 09:23 
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Joined: 04/06/11
Posts: 5314
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Aircraft: Warbirds
Username Protected wrote:

http://youtu.be/S-pLdKLJZuI

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