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09 Aug 2020, 14:15 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Greenwich AeroGroup



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 Post subject: Tecnam's new Jet-A powered P2010 TDI single
PostPosted: 29 May 2020, 06:45 
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Location: New Smyrna Beach, FL (X50)
Aircraft: Cessna 310i
liquid-cooled 170-horsepower Continental Aerospace Technologies CD-170 Jet A engine
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 Post subject: Re: Tecnam's new Jet-A powered P2010 TDI single
PostPosted: 29 May 2020, 07:02 
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Joined: 11/30/16
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Company: OMALI
Location: Guatemala City, Other (MGGT)
Aircraft: 1967 Debonair C33A
GAME CHANGER

I insist that someone needs to make a decently priced 300 hp turbine.

My only question is if this is from the same Continental that can’t figure out how to manufacture cylinders that last to TBO.


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 Post subject: Re: Tecnam's new Jet-A powered P2010 TDI single
PostPosted: 29 May 2020, 07:49 
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Location: Eastern Panhandle of WV
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Username Protected wrote:
My only question is if this is from the same Continental that can’t figure out how to manufacture cylinders that last to TBO.

Possibly even better! I know the Continental CD-135 and CD-155 are the remnants of the Thielert engines that originally powered Diamond products, until it was determined that Thielert couldn't manufacture a lot of parts that made it to TBR. Not sure the 170 is of the same lineage, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Tecnam's new Jet-A powered P2010 TDI single
PostPosted: 29 May 2020, 21:19 
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What seems problematic (to me) is TBR (Time Before Replacement, not possible to overhaul) of 1200 hours. Doesn't seem feasible for a training environment.

Dan


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 Post subject: Re: Tecnam's new Jet-A powered P2010 TDI single
PostPosted: 29 May 2020, 21:34 
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Location: Oklahoma City, OK (KPWA)
Aircraft: planeless
Game changer? I doubt it. I bet flop


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 Post subject: Re: Tecnam's new Jet-A powered P2010 TDI single
PostPosted: 30 May 2020, 07:32 
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Aircraft: F33A, Challenger 605
Username Protected wrote:
What seems problematic (to me) is TBR (Time Before Replacement, not possible to overhaul) of 1200 hours. Doesn't seem feasible for a training environment.

Dan


Depends how much the core is worth.


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 Post subject: Re: Tecnam's new Jet-A powered P2010 TDI single
PostPosted: 30 May 2020, 08:16 
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Company: Malco Power Design
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Aircraft: 1976 Baron 58
Username Protected wrote:
What seems problematic (to me) is TBR (Time Before Replacement, not possible to overhaul) of 1200 hours. Doesn't seem feasible for a training environment.

Dan


I’m sure there’ll be a term for these engines when they’ve been gone through by someone other than the factory and brought back to new limits.

Just like we have the term “top overhaul” now which isn’t legally an overhaul we won’t be able to call that an “overhaul” since the factory won’t publish an overhaul manual for these engines, but you can bet they won’t all be going back to Alabama at 1200 hours.

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 Post subject: Re: Tecnam's new Jet-A powered P2010 TDI single
PostPosted: 30 May 2020, 09:00 
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Aircraft: 1963 Debonair B33
The other CD engines have been granted higher TBR over time. Hopefully this model will as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Tecnam's new Jet-A powered P2010 TDI single
PostPosted: 30 May 2020, 12:21 
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I think its better looking than the 172 but the diesel-powered 172 was a plane that never found a market. I would expect the new Tecnam to be marketed at schools and customers outside North America where avgas is a problem. Diamond has sold a lot of DA40 diesels into those markets too.


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 Post subject: Re: Tecnam's new Jet-A powered P2010 TDI single
PostPosted: 30 May 2020, 14:56 
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Diesel should be better. Mystery as to why it isn’t. Overall costs should be lower with lower operating cost with improved reliability.

Having to replace the engine at 1200 hours, higher acquisition cost, and lower useful load are all non-starters in the US. In Europe paying $9 gal for 100LL it could make sense.

acquisition price needs to come down, and TBO should be 2000 hours.

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 Post subject: Re: Tecnam's new Jet-A powered P2010 TDI single
PostPosted: 30 May 2020, 18:50 
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Joined: 08/09/08
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Company: FHS Au
Location: Sydney, Australia (YSBK)
Aircraft: 1967 Debonair C33
Username Protected wrote:
I think its better looking than the 172 but the diesel-powered 172 was a plane that never found a market. I would expect the new Tecnam to be marketed at schools and customers outside North America where avgas is a problem. Diamond has sold a lot of DA40 diesels into those markets too.

P2010 flies like a POS from go to wo.
No vis (dangerous as a trainer)
Trim that cuts your hand/fingers
Poor control travel
Weirdest landing profile, never once hit the centerline when landing
Will not train anyone in one YMMV

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 Post subject: Re: Tecnam's new Jet-A powered P2010 TDI single
PostPosted: 30 May 2020, 19:12 
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Joined: 01/06/08
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Aircraft: Baron C55
I think one of the problems with diesels is that fuel costs don't really dominate total aircraft ownership costs. For most people the capital cost of a new plane is more important and I think diesel engines are more complex and more expensive than standard aircraft engines.

The better efficiency helps (maybe 20%?), but at long as avgas is available, it isn't enough to make up for the extra capital cost and weight.


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 Post subject: Re: Tecnam's new Jet-A powered P2010 TDI single
PostPosted: 31 May 2020, 12:08 
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Joined: 04/26/13
Posts: 9001
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Location: Columbus , IN (KBAK)
Aircraft: 1968 Baron D55
Username Protected wrote:
I’m sure there’ll be a term for these engines when they’ve been gone through by someone other than the factory and brought back to new limits.

Just like we have the term “top overhaul” now which isn’t legally an overhaul we won’t be able to call that an “overhaul” since the factory won’t publish an overhaul manual for these engines, but you can bet they won’t all be going back to Alabama at 1200 hours.

Yes, the term is “uncertified”.

There is no way I would buy an engine or airplane with one that had to be replaced at some arbitrary time in service. I run my engines past TBO and I don’t give them back to Continental (who’s quality control I don’t trust) when they need to be overhauled.

This is likely a method to control sales and revenue. As to rebuilds, my guess is that the cylinders do not have replaceable liners, which means that they could be bored and sleeved if necessary but if that is not approved then the block is tossed when the bores exceed spec.

I don’t see any way a normal US flight school would take this engine on a training or rental plane.

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 Post subject: Re: Tecnam's new Jet-A powered P2010 TDI single
PostPosted: 31 May 2020, 17:38 
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Joined: 12/30/15
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Location: New England
Aircraft: Baron G58
Does the GA world really need a 170hp diesel, piston engine?

Significant advantage completely unclear, unless the climate changers are going to outlaw
100LL in next few years.

As a prior poster said, wake me up when someone designs, tests, manufactures, field tests
a 300hp-450hp turbine engine; whether turbo-prop or turbo-fan. And can make & sell same at a competitive price.

That would be a game changer.


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 Post subject: Re: Tecnam's new Jet-A powered P2010 TDI single
PostPosted: 31 May 2020, 17:46 
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Joined: 11/18/11
Posts: 1495
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Location: (West of) St Louis, MO KUUV
Aircraft: PA28 180C
Username Protected wrote:
GAME CHANGER

I insist that someone needs to make a decently priced 300 hp turbine.

My only question is if this is from the same Continental that can’t figure out how to manufacture cylinders that last to TBO.


Might be more of a market for a 200 hp turbine.


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