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 Post subject: Piper Cherokee Fuel Tank Brown Sediment in Sample Cup
PostPosted: 27 Mar 2020, 09:43 
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Joined: 04/11/11
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Location: Lake Placid, FL
Aircraft: A36, B737 at work
Helping a friend trouble shoot his PA28-140 fuel tank. Only the left tank has this issue. He occasionally gets about 1/8" of brown sediment in the fuel sample cup when checking his fuel tank drain prior to flight.

What's weird we have left the tank completly full for two weeks and nothing appeared. But everytime after he flies the aircraft he gets a sample of this brown sediment after letting the tank settle out, 6 hours or so.

I'm inclined to think the fuel tank sealant is degrading, although there are no leaks visually evident around the tank. Hoped it was a slug of contamination from a recent fueling, but it has appeared many times over the last 6 weeks.

Nothing in the gascolator drain or screen, nothing in the right tank, only from the left tank wing sump drain. Visually through the fuel filler cap eveything looks ok, but obviously can't see much, might get a borescope in there and look around.

Other than the sealant is coming apart, is there anything else that someone might think of before we pull the tank? Or other troubleshooting ideas? Will call Hartwig today as well.

Thanks,

Russell


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Cherokee Fuel Tank Brown Sediment in Sample Cup
PostPosted: 27 Mar 2020, 09:52 
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Joined: 06/02/10
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Company: Stratz Farms
Location: Fond du Lac, WI & Spruce Creek, FL
Aircraft: 1992 Bonanza F33A
Might it just be dirty water?

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 Post subject: Re: Piper Cherokee Fuel Tank Brown Sediment in Sample Cup
PostPosted: 27 Mar 2020, 10:56 
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Location: Lake Placid, FL
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Username Protected wrote:
Might it just be dirty water?


Greg, that was my hope, but it keeps showing up, sump clear, few days later (after a flight) sump's dirty. But if we just let it sit, nothing happens (even shaking the wing to release any trapped water).

My buddy, rightfully so, is getting nervous about continued operation of the airplane. I'm thinking about having him flush the tank, that way if it is contaminates maybe we'll get rid of them.

Keep the thoughts coming.

Russell


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Cherokee Fuel Tank Brown Sediment in Sample Cup
PostPosted: 27 Mar 2020, 11:00 
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Location: (West of) St Louis, MO KFYG
Aircraft: PA28 180C
Can they scope inside the tank to see what it looks like? Once upon a time Piper supported resealing the inside of tanks in the case of seam leaks. I cannot recall what they recommended at the time. They stopped this recommendation a long time ago due to deterioration of the sealing material.

If it only shows in one tank, they may have just resealed one tank. Something to check. (scope both tanks).


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Cherokee Fuel Tank Brown Sediment in Sample Cup
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2020, 00:06 
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Can they scope inside the tank to see what it looks like? Once upon a time Piper supported resealing the inside of tanks in the case of seam leaks. I cannot recall what they recommended at the time. They stopped this recommendation a long time ago due to deterioration of the sealing material.

If it only shows in one tank, they may have just resealed one tank. Something to check. (scope both tanks).


Is it safe to put a scope with an electric light inside a fuel tank full of fuel? Even one that is empty will have vapors right? I'm legit asking because I don't know the answer. Someone more knowledgable than me hopefully can chime in but my instinct would be to not put anything that could generate a spark in there....no electrons...??

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 Post subject: Re: Piper Cherokee Fuel Tank Brown Sediment in Sample Cup
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2020, 01:52 
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Remove fuel tank. Clean and flush to remove vapor and gasoline residue. Inspect for presence of sloshing sealer per SB251D.

Inspect the spar behind the tank per SB1006.

Not that big of a deal. Just remove it, inspect, clean, sign off the SB's and you're done.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Cherokee Fuel Tank Brown Sediment in Sample Cup
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2020, 08:09 
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Slosh can be pretty dangerous stuff. I know there have been some fatal accidents in the experimental community from this stuff coming off and clogging something downstream.


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Cherokee Fuel Tank Brown Sediment in Sample Cup
PostPosted: 30 Mar 2020, 00:03 
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Joined: 10/31/11
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Company: B777, 767, 757, 727, MD11, S80
Location: Colorado Springs
Aircraft: Thrush S2R, AC500B,
Username Protected wrote:
Might it just be dirty water?


Have you flown to San Francisco lately. :crazy:


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Cherokee Fuel Tank Brown Sediment in Sample Cup
PostPosted: 30 Mar 2020, 17:51 
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Joined: 04/26/13
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Location: Columbus , IN (KBAK)
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Username Protected wrote:
Remove fuel tank. Clean and flush to remove vapor and gasoline residue. Inspect for presence of sloshing sealer per SB251D.

Inspect the spar behind the tank per SB1006.

Not that big of a deal. Just remove it, inspect, clean, sign off the SB's and you're done.

Worth doing. The fuel tanks are held in by a bunch of screws. It’s not a big deal to pull them.

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 Post subject: Re: Piper Cherokee Fuel Tank Brown Sediment in Sample Cup
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2020, 11:03 
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Joined: 04/11/11
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Problem found, dirty filter in a 100LL fuel tank used on a private airstrip. Filter was full of water and rust. Dang lucky all he got was brown sediment and didn’t cause an engine failure. Tank has been drained, flushed and now appears completely clean.

When he saw the filter he was white as a ghost, so no lecture needed, he knows he got off easy.

Russell


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Cherokee Fuel Tank Brown Sediment in Sample Cup
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2020, 13:44 
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Joined: 06/02/10
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Company: Stratz Farms
Location: Fond du Lac, WI & Spruce Creek, FL
Aircraft: 1992 Bonanza F33A
Username Protected wrote:
Problem found, dirty filter in a 100LL fuel tank used on a private airstrip. Filter was full of water and rust. Dang lucky all he got was brown sediment and didn’t cause an engine failure. Tank has been drained, flushed and now appears completely clean.

When he saw the filter he was white as a ghost, so no lecture needed, he knows he got off easy.

Russell


Dang, I guess I was barking up the right tree.

_________________
Greg Stratz
Stratz Farms
ABS Past President


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 Post subject: Re: Piper Cherokee Fuel Tank Brown Sediment in Sample Cup
PostPosted: 31 Mar 2020, 13:49 
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Joined: 11/20/14
Posts: 6451
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Aircraft: V35
Glad it was not the tank. If you have a leak or degraded seal on a Piper tank a vendor to talk to is Woodstock. They have the charming ads in Trade-a-Plane saying "The best place in the world to take a leak." :D

http://woodstockair.com/


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