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09 Aug 2020, 13:39 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Greenwich AeroGroup



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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2020, 16:06 
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Username Protected wrote:
Thanks Chip - the above is great advice - as I have seen a few get really far down the path for an M2 for instance only to learn they were looking at $80k-$100k first year insurance. Most at that point are dropping out or re-assessing their aircraft type value.

In this market always a good idea to check on the insurance landscape before you get emotionally attached to moving up a notch or two into a turbine.

Tom, have you seen any clients self-insurance a portion of (or essentially under insure) their hull value and try to hold level on liability? I realize that would be a roadblock with lenders, but there are a bunch of free and clear jets out there too. Just curious.

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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2020, 18:52 
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Location: Eden Prairie, MN / Scottsdale, AZ
Aircraft: 2016 Cirrus SR22 G5
Username Protected wrote:
Tom, have you seen any clients self-insurance a portion of (or essentially under insure) their hull value and try to hold level on liability? I realize that would be a roadblock with lenders, but there are a bunch of free and clear jets out there too. Just curious.


Hi Clint-
The short answer is no - insurers will not allow you to grossly underinsure the hull - for instance cover $500k on a $1.5m Mustang. All insurers have vref or blue book info so if a valuation comes in to quote that is more than 15-25 percent deviation from market value they will either ask you to substantiate the valuation or will decline to quote it.

I also have not seen ANY clients non-renew a light jet policy or drop hull coverage due to insurance. There frankly is not a big crisis in the sub $2m asset value insurance field - yes there are 10-35+ percent changes but at the end of the day the increase is but a small faction of the Opex for this class of aircraft annually. I have however seen lots of folks walk away from purchasing a $3m+ jet (M2, CJ2, new Phenom 100EV etc) that is to be owner/flown and moreso with the $5m+ jets that are owner/flown. That insurance picture is simply staggering compared to 24 months ago. Premium in some cases are 3 to 4X what they were in 2017 and early 2018.

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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2020, 21:10 
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Tom,

Thanks for the reply. I know some guys are more concerned about the liability piece than the hull in given situations. That's why I ask. There's no doubt that the $5m+ owner-flown market is the high risk category. Not surprising to see the high premiums and declines in that segment. It's been a rough couple years.

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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2020, 12:26 
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guess I'm stuck in the TBM for several more years. Oh well...

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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2020, 12:29 
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Username Protected wrote:
guess I'm stuck in the TBM for several more years. Oh well...


How awful. I’m sorry.

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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2020, 13:42 
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Just got my renewal for the upcoming year. I'll have to pay a couple thousand more for the same limits, but all things considered, I'm ok with it.

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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2020, 14:31 
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Username Protected wrote:
Just got my renewal for the upcoming year. I'll have to pay a couple thousand more for the same limits, but all things considered, I'm ok with it.

FWIW, my current underwriter would not even offer me the same limits. And they increased my hull deductible from $10k to $50k. And they charged me a couple grand more in premium.

So you got a “good deal”!

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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 12 Mar 2020, 07:39 
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Company: Jet Acquisitions, LLC
Location: Nashville, Tennessee 615-739-9091 Georgetown, Texas 512-688-5248 chip@jetacq.com
Username Protected wrote:
Just got my renewal for the upcoming year. I'll have to pay a couple thousand more for the same limits, but all things considered, I'm ok with it.

FWIW, my current underwriter would not even offer me the same limits. And they increased my hull deductible from $10k to $50k. And they charged me a couple grand more in premium.

So you got a “good deal”!


A few of our clients have experienced the same thing.

At the end of the day, follow the money. We have to do something about these massive lawsuits or rates will continue to rise.
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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2020, 09:25 
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Shameless bump.

I’m sick of Covid. Let’s talk about Mustangs!

If I have time I’ll start an M2 thread.

Any other AIRPLANE y’all want to talk about?

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Chip McClure
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Last edited on 07 Apr 2020, 10:57, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2020, 10:17 
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Username Protected wrote:
Shameless bump.

I’m sick of Covid. Let’s talk about Mustangs!

If I have time I’ll start an M2 thread.

Anything other AIRPLANE y’all want to talk about?


Dear God, yes, please!


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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2020, 10:32 
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Agree - let's keep this forum virus-free! :)

Would love to see an M2 thread. I have a friend who, before the pandemic, was trying to assess whether it was better to purchase a CJ1/CJ1+, add the Tamarack winglets and perhaps refresh the interior versus buying an M2. I also understand that Collins is (or was before the pandemic) on track to make the Fusion upgrade available to CJ1/CJ1+ airframes with the PL21 avionics although I have no idea on the cost of that potential upgrade.

I told him that my completely uninformed opinion was that a used M2 was probably a better deal (certainly a lower hassle factor) than major upgrades to a CJ1+ (not as sure about a CJ1), but would be curious in the opinions of others. And if there is any feedback on how the winglets affect the M2, for example.

I also gather that there is a big difference in insurance availability as you move up from a Mustang to an M2 - again, not certain about how that affects the CJ1/CJ1+ market ... And M2 vs. HDJT would be an interesting topic too!

Talk amongst yourselves! :)


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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2020, 10:51 
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With Jet-A getting so cheap, it’s changed the flight planning strategy for SP jets. Now, you just flightplan for minimizing flight time and burn the extra fuel.

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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2020, 11:10 
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Username Protected wrote:
If I have time I’ll start an M2 thread.


Would love that. And one for the Phenom 100 too would be nice.
When you have time..... :thumbup:

This Mustang thread has been hugely helpful and informative. Also was Mike's thread on Williams engines.

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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2020, 11:23 
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I am at one year under my belt with the mustang. My 1000nm commute had a 100% non stop success rate. Was close a couple times at just under 4 hours, but regardless, I am impressed. It performs as advertised, and then some. Never had to postpone due to weather, was always cruising in the sunshine, have carried a ton, and had minimal downtime for maintenance. Absolutely love the Mustang.

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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2020, 11:35 
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Aircraft: Turbo Commander 680V
P180's! Let's talk about them!

See what I did there - I didn't keep the thread virus free! :D

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