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09 Aug 2020, 13:32 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Greenwich AeroGroup



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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2020, 14:33 
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Can’t speak for Mark but I’ve lost enough hearing to want to protect, maximize that protection, what’s left. Thus Bose noise canceling. :peace: :D

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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2020, 14:44 
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Location: KSRQ KJVL
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I will have to experiment next flight (thought I already had), pretty sure I noticed little to no difference powered up versus not. Can’t say enough about the very quiet cockpit in the mustang.

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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2020, 15:06 
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Yes I can take off. See diagram.

Am I reading the diagram correctly that you are taking off at 7550 lbs though? Isn’t that pretty light? What’s the fuel load, payload, and how far you can go on that?

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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2020, 15:07 
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Location: Minneapolis, MN (KFCM)
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Username Protected wrote:
I will have to experiment next flight (thought I already had), pretty sure I noticed little to no difference powered up versus not. Can’t say enough about the very quiet cockpit in the mustang.

ANR does virtually nothing for frequencies above 1000-1500 Hz which is exactly where I'd expect most of the noise to be in a jet. IOW the passive protection (much better with LS than Bose BTW) is all that matters and it shouldn't take a lot of passive attenuation either to protect your hearing.

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-lance

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.


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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2020, 15:13 
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Username Protected wrote:
I will have to experiment next flight (thought I already had), pretty sure I noticed little to no difference powered up versus not. Can’t say enough about the very quiet cockpit in the mustang.

ANR does virtually nothing for frequencies above 1000-1500 Hz which is exactly where I'd expect most of the noise to be in a jet. IOW the passive protection (much better with LS than Bose BTW) is all that matters and it shouldn't take a lot of passive attenuation either to protect your hearing.


Is Yacht Radio enough “passive attenuation “?
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Tony


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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2020, 15:23 
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Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R44
Username Protected wrote:
Yes I can take off. See diagram.

Am I reading the diagram correctly that you are taking off at 7550 lbs though? Isn’t that pretty light? What’s the fuel load, payload, and how far you can go on that?


1900 pounds of fuel and me. I can add 768 more lbs and be fine.
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Mark Hangen
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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2020, 15:28 
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Another benefit of the Mustang over my past aircraft, besides the fact that you can get almost 200 pounds extra into the tanks, is that it does not puke back out. I have stuffed the tanks and tucked it back into the hangar several days before departure. In the Meridian or Mirage, it would have been on the hangar floor.

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Tony


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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2020, 15:43 
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Location: Minneapolis, MN (KFCM)
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Username Protected wrote:
Is Yacht Radio enough “passive attenuation “?


"Yacht Radio"???

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-lance

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.


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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2020, 16:15 
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Location: KVES Greenville, OH
Aircraft: C421
Username Protected wrote:
Is Yacht Radio enough “passive attenuation “?


"Yacht Radio"???

Sirius XM channel 311
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Jack Stull
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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 08 Mar 2020, 16:16 
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Come on guys... “Yacht rock”


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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2020, 00:53 
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Joined: 05/23/13
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Company: Jet Acquisitions, LLC
Location: Nashville, Tennessee 615-739-9091 Georgetown, Texas 512-688-5248 chip@jetacq.com
Username Protected wrote:
I fly into KFCM often. If the guy wasn’t by himself in the tower, I promise you he said, “Hey guys, watch this!”

A jet on 18 is something you wouldn’t see.., just saying. Very impressive from a performance perspective.

I want one. It’s hard to understand the math. You can buy a capable JET like that for about the price of a 15 year old TBM... go to 410 and climb through the high teens at 1500 FPM on two engines. In a JET!

The TBM at 180 with the separator on and 4-5000 feet of icy clouds to go is not the same experience. I like the TBM but anyone who flies it won’t disagree, they have the least amount of power when you need it the most!

The cost per mile isn’t much different and yes, the Mustang burns more fuel..... I drive a DuraMax mostly on the highway so can’t be a hypocrite. The field requirements are certainly something to pay attention to but maybe not as big of deal as some think, as demonstrated.

It must be the type rating or the perception because you can’t argue when the market speaks. Did I say I want one....


It’s primarily the type rating but also the impression that the jet cost a lot more to operate. If you look at the hourly cost, sure the jet is higher, if you leave it there the TBM looks much more economical. When you do the math on actual trips you’ll find they are pretty close, in fact if the Mustang does the mission in 2 1/2 hours, it will probably beat the TBM cost wise.

One thing I’ve noticed, TBM maintenance numbers tend to be quoted low. One thing to understand about any jet, every once in a while you have to write a $50k check for something unexpected. That is rare in turboprops.

We do have an easier time finding good buys in the Mustang market, lots of trade-ins, most of those guys are moving up to an M2 or 3+ and they’re motivated sellers.

The TBM 850 with a Elite and up... is a pretty thin market, expect to pay retail. That is a plus when you go to sell, but can be frustrating when trying to buy. There’s a lot of TBM guys who are new to the turbine world and just write the check. (plus type rating / insurance can be a problem)

Pilatus has the best resale of anything in the sub $5m world, but the TBM holds its own.

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Chip McClure
Jet Acquisitions
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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2020, 07:46 
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Aircraft: 2016 Cirrus SR22 G5
Username Protected wrote:
There’s a lot of TBM guys who are new to the turbine world and just write the check. (plus type rating / insurance can be a problem)



Chip-
If you are moving up to a Mustang from a turbo-prop there is good capacity yet with insurance - meaning you will have good options and reasonable premiums. All pre-owned Mustangs on the planet (and most of the Phenom 100's as well) are likely sub $2m and that is kind of the sweet spot in an otherwise challenging insurance market. The M2's on up (CJ2/3/4) aren't so lucky in terms of premiums the transition pilot might see. :thumbup:

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Tom Hauge
Wings Insurance
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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2020, 15:14 
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Joined: 05/23/13
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Location: Nashville, Tennessee 615-739-9091 Georgetown, Texas 512-688-5248 chip@jetacq.com
Username Protected wrote:
There’s a lot of TBM guys who are new to the turbine world and just write the check. (plus type rating / insurance can be a problem)



Chip-
If you are moving up to a Mustang from a turbo-prop there is good capacity yet with insurance - meaning you will have good options and reasonable premiums. All pre-owned Mustangs on the planet (and most of the Phenom 100's as well) are likely sub $2m and that is kind of the sweet spot in an otherwise challenging insurance market. The M2's on up (CJ2/3/4) aren't so lucky in terms of premiums the transition pilot might see. :thumbup:


Tom,

Good to know or should I say confirm... I should have clarified that we're seeing a lot of SR22 to TBM / Mustang clients right now. Many have no twin time so the twin jet or for that matter a King Air seems to be the problem. I do tell everyone though to ask their broker, because what I think is based on yesterday's news!

Our last Mustang client went from a Baron to the Mustang and was able to get insurance with reasonable requirements, the rate was a little high (GA) but not horrible.

Yes, the M2 and that north of $3M hull value seems to get dicey, we have a client we originally purchased a PC-12 for, he moved up to an M2 last year and the training requirements / mentor time was significant.

Any advice or insight you have is greatly appreciated. Hopefully, we'll be able to send some business your way, it seems that most of our clients already have a broker they like.
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Chip McClure
Jet Acquisitions
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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2020, 15:50 
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Aircraft: 2016 Cirrus SR22 G5
Username Protected wrote:
I do tell everyone though to ask their broker, because what I think is based on yesterday's news!


Thanks Chip - the above is great advice - as I have seen a few get really far down the path for an M2 for instance only to learn they were looking at $80k-$100k first year insurance. Most at that point are dropping out or re-assessing their aircraft type value.

In this market always a good idea to check on the insurance landscape before you get emotionally attached to moving up a notch or two into a turbine.

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Tom Hauge
Wings Insurance
National Sales Director
E-mail: thauge@wingsinsurance.com


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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2020, 15:56 
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Location: Nashville, Tennessee 615-739-9091 Georgetown, Texas 512-688-5248 chip@jetacq.com
Username Protected wrote:
I do tell everyone though to ask their broker, because what I think is based on yesterday's news!


Thanks Chip - the above is great advice - as I have seen a few get really far down the path for an M2 for instance only to learn they were looking at $80k-$100k first year insurance. Most at that point are dropping out or re-assessing their aircraft type value.

In this market always a good idea to check on the insurance landscape before you get emotionally attached to moving up a notch or two into a turbine.


EXACTLY! I'm also telling them to do it now, this isn't a wait and see if it gets better scenario.
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Chip McClure
Jet Acquisitions
chip@jetacq.com

We work for buyers!


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