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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2021, 17:29 
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Joined: 02/18/18
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Is it harder to find a c90b paint interior 2 years ago g1000, raise beck epic package -135a 600hrs 4K total time plane that’s what I am looking to upgrade.


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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2021, 19:08 
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Joined: 05/23/13
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Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
Username Protected wrote:
Is it harder to find a c90b paint interior 2 years ago g1000, raise beck epic package -135a 600hrs 4K total time plane that’s what I am looking to upgrade.


The Mustang is a LOT easier to find than your airplane!

The trick with buying a Mustang is to find one off market and buy it right... harder than it use to be, but so far we are still getting it done.

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It’s a brave new world, one where most have forgotten the old ways.


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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2021, 19:52 
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Joined: 11/08/12
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Location: San Carlos, CA - KHWD
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
I have been toying with Mustang idea, but... When I flight plan some of my real world flights, it doesn't really gain much for me vs. my Mits. It's a little faster in cruise, but needs to climb higher to make sense for fuel, which increases block time. In addition it makes it sensitive to head winds.

Example: was looking at flight from San Francisco to Seattle this week, winds were strong out of the north. Max winds were more than 100 kts out of the north (direct headwind) at about 30,000' but were strong above and below too. My Mits is limited to FL280, which would put it right in the heart of the high wind. But I could fly it at about 16,000' where the flight time was decent and fuel efficiency is worse than high but not that bad. It basically got the same block time and fuel as the Mustang when Mustang planned at FL400. All altitudes below FL400 were worse for the Mustang, and of course getting below the wind at 16-20,000 like with the Mits made the fuel burn crazy (may not even have had the range). In no case was it faster than flying my Mits and it used similar fuel in best case.

If I went the other way, with big tailwinds, I could get the Mits into the heart of that strong wind at FL270 and only took less than 5 minutes more block time to the Mustang's best case time. Again, about the same amount of fuel in Mustang's best case, otherwise was less. So headwind or tailwind, both airplanes came out about the same.

I also frequently fly a short route (KSQL-KTRK, go VFR for less routing in class B), and obviously there Mustang is simply same speed with substantially higher fuel burn.

So I'm having trouble justifying it as an upgrade in my case. Not that everything needs to be justified... :-)

Anyone want to help make the case and talk me into it? It has the following obvious advantages:
- it's a jet
- it could fit in my hangar
- I could land/takeoff at KSQL

I like the M2 capabilities, but can't fit in my hangar and runway length at KSQL starts to get problematic.

First world problems, admittedly. But fun to think about, happy to hear others' thoughts.

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-Jon C.


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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2021, 20:18 
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It can’t be as bad as the CJ3 market closed on one in June after many full price offers I think 7 of them. I have been looking at the king air market looks to be hot right now as all planes are but not sure I want to part with it might just add the mustang as a third plane our utilization is high enough to justify.


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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2021, 21:32 
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Joined: 12/17/13
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Location: Hollywood, Los Angeles, CA
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Username Protected wrote:

Anyone want to help make the case and talk me into it? It has the following obvious advantages:
- it's a jet
- it could fit in my hangar
- I could land/takeoff at KSQL

I like the M2 capabilities, but can't fit in my hangar and runway length at KSQL starts to get problematic.

First world problems, admittedly. But fun to think about, happy to hear others' thoughts.


Jon - why not a P180? Best of both those worlds.

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Problem is the intelligent people are full of doubt, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.


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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2021, 22:30 
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Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 13578
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Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
Username Protected wrote:
Mustang hasn't been too hard to find, a fair amount of people upgrade out of them.

CJX


Ok. My bad. There are 4 for sale on controller. The only one with a price is $2.1 million. It's a 2009 that would have sold for $1.3 a year ago.


Again. My bad.

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Mark Hangen
Deputy Minister of Ice (aka FlyingIceperson)
Power of the Turbine
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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2021, 01:10 
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Joined: 11/08/12
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Location: San Carlos, CA - KHWD
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Username Protected wrote:
Jon - why not a P180? Best of both those worlds.

Yes, agreed. My biggest problem there is hangar size required.

Alas, all I have is a large T hangar. All these planes don’t do well in the T shape.

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-Jon C.


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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2021, 07:59 
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Joined: 07/06/14
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Nose towards the back?


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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2021, 08:25 
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Username Protected wrote:
Jon - why not a P180? Best of both those worlds.

Yes, agreed. My biggest problem there is hangar size required.

Alas, all I have is a large T hangar. All these planes don’t do well in the T shape.


Oh, I feel your pain, brother!

[youtube]https://youtu.be/pT66im8UHHQ[/youtube]
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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2021, 09:29 
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Joined: 02/16/21
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Company: CampoRico
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Username Protected wrote:
Is it harder to find a c90b paint interior 2 years ago g1000, raise beck epic package -135a 600hrs 4K total time plane that’s what I am looking to upgrade.


If you do upgrade call me! That’s the plane I’m looking for!


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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2021, 09:37 
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Joined: 11/08/12
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Location: San Carlos, CA - KHWD
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Username Protected wrote:

Oh, I feel your pain, brother!

Dude, that is tight!

How deep is your T? Maybe you need a MU2, which is pretty compact other than the T depth which needs 20’ due to tip tanks-nose length. :)

But T hangar is a constraint for sure.

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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2021, 10:08 
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Joined: 05/23/13
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Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
Username Protected wrote:
Mustang hasn't been too hard to find, a fair amount of people upgrade out of them.

CJX


Ok. My bad. There are 4 for sale on controller. The only one with a price is $2.1 million. It's a 2009 that would have sold for $1.3 a year ago.


Again. My bad.


Nope Mark, you are correct... the real number is zero for sale!

But Corey is correct, they come up often because of the upgrade path, but you have to be direct to the owner, if they hit Controller, they're gone.
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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2021, 11:37 
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That’s what I am seeing chip thank god got the CJ3 it was the final one we put an offer on, there is nothing for sale (kind of scary)


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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2021, 14:19 
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Joined: 05/23/13
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Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
Username Protected wrote:
That’s what I am seeing chip thank god got the CJ3 it was the final one we put an offer on, there is nothing for sale (kind of scary)


It is tight, we have a client that was able to buy one, but it was a very unusual situation. We had a CJ3 client last year, we couldn't find anything worth buying so we bought a Lear 45XR instead, caught that market in a slump and bought one that Bombardier had, talk about a good investment. It's now worth WAY more than we paid!

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It’s a brave new world, one where most have forgotten the old ways.


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 Post subject: Re: If the Mustang does your mission, it's darn near perfect
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2021, 22:28 
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Joined: 07/28/15
Posts: 65
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Aircraft: C510
Username Protected wrote:
I have been toying with Mustang idea, but... When I flight plan some of my real world flights, it doesn't really gain much for me vs. my Mits. It's a little faster in cruise, but needs to climb higher to make sense for fuel, which increases block time. In addition it makes it sensitive to head winds.

Example: was looking at flight from San Francisco to Seattle this week, winds were strong out of the north. Max winds were more than 100 kts out of the north (direct headwind) at about 30,000' but were strong above and below too. My Mits is limited to FL280, which would put it right in the heart of the high wind. But I could fly it at about 16,000' where the flight time was decent and fuel efficiency is worse than high but not that bad. It basically got the same block time and fuel as the Mustang when Mustang planned at FL400. All altitudes below FL400 were worse for the Mustang, and of course getting below the wind at 16-20,000 like with the Mits made the fuel burn crazy (may not even have had the range). In no case was it faster than flying my Mits and it used similar fuel in best case.

If I went the other way, with big tailwinds, I could get the Mits into the heart of that strong wind at FL270 and only took less than 5 minutes more block time to the Mustang's best case time. Again, about the same amount of fuel in Mustang's best case, otherwise was less. So headwind or tailwind, both airplanes came out about the same.

I also frequently fly a short route (KSQL-KTRK, go VFR for less routing in class B), and obviously there Mustang is simply same speed with substantially higher fuel burn.

So I'm having trouble justifying it as an upgrade in my case. Not that everything needs to be justified... :-)

Anyone want to help make the case and talk me into it? It has the following obvious advantages:
- it's a jet
- it could fit in my hangar
- I could land/takeoff at KSQL

I like the M2 capabilities, but can't fit in my hangar and runway length at KSQL starts to get problematic.

First world problems, admittedly. But fun to think about, happy to hear others' thoughts.


SQL would be tight on runway for a mustang on a hot day. You’d have to be light.

But if you do it, let’s be plane partners because I fly a dry leased mustang out of HWD but live much closer to SQL!


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