I am looking to move up to a pressurized piston aircraft. I have looked at the 58P and it feels to cramped for my family. I have 3 kids under 5 and and when we go places we have to take pack and plays, strollers, etc.... I currently fly a C55 Baron and a Trubo Saratoga, but putting on oxygen on a 9 month old is impossible, and the other 2 hate it as well. I am really looking at the 340 or possibly the 414. It seems in my research so far that the 421 has some higher operating costs then the other 2. I would love to hear the pros and cons from people who have actually owned or do own them now. Also would like to know some real world operating costs of both.

Jerry Alves owned a 340 and now a 421 and says it's basically a wash cost wise. 421 all the way! Plan on $600 /hr for 100 hrs a year.

I have had my 421 for about 15 years and the price of 600 per hour sounds right on mine also because I never fly it over 100 hours a year. Get the 421 best bang for the buck.

600 dollars per hour based on 100 hours per year is about right. The operating cost is the same for all three. The 421 will have a slightly higher overhaul expense.
Call Peter Danto 1-925-788-9010 he is a real expert on the 300 and 400 series Cessnas.

Your family will be growing faster then you expect. Get a 421, fix it up the way you like, and it will serve you well until you want a turboprop.

If you get a 340 you will likely want a bigger plane in a few years.

If you were about to buy a fleet of 50 airplanes and were looking 340 vs 414 vs 421, then there might be some arguments about cost of one versus another. But individual airframe variation is going to swamp model variation. Assume a range of costs for $500-$700/hr ... in that case you are looking at $500,000 to operate one for 1000 hours over 10 years. High end you are looking at $700,000. One unexpected engine overhaul runs $50K. An unexpected windshield will be $20K. They're all basically the same.

Your ability to operate one of these machines over time will largely be dependent on your wife liking the plane. Take her for a ride in each one and buy what she wants.

That said ... I've flown my family at various times in a Saratoga, Malibu, A55 and 421. The overwhelming favorite was the 421. Comfortable, quiet, potty(!!), enormous cargo room. You can pick up a nice B model for $150K. As long as you're opening up the checkbook, hard to go wrong with a 421.

I opened this thread with trepidation and expecting to have to defend the 421. Imagine my pleasant surprise when all of my BT friends did my work for me!

We're only a family of four, but we love the 421 and the space it provides. None of these airplanes are cheap, but I don't think there's that much difference in operating costs between the various Cessna pressurized twins, and the 421 is definitely the queen of the fleet.

It's a spectacular airplane that has served us well. My family went from "do we have to fly in daddy's airplane?" to "do we have to fly commercial?!". They are happy and I am happy!

Robert

The 340, 340A, and 414 (non A) are basically the same operating cost per hour having basically the same systems and engines. The 414 is a bit slower, so it cost a bit more per mile just due to that.

The 414A, having a simplified fuel and gear system, is probably less cost to operate than the 340 or straight 414. Has much better engine out numbers due to longer wing. The 414A does have an unwarranted spar AD simply because it is similar to the 402C. The spar strap becomes required at some point if not already done.

The 421B is a good airplane, shares the same basic design and systems as the 340 and 414 except the geared engines. I believe only the 1975 421B can be FIKI, so take that into consideration if that is a requirement

The 421C improves on this with improved fuel and gear system. The extra fuel burn and higher cost of engine overhaul do add some cost, on the order of 5-8 GPH and $30/hr extra for engine and prop reserve (big prop). Starting in 1980, the 421C came with trailing link gear which, with other changes, cost about 100 pounds.

My personal favorite is a 1976-1979 421C straight leg. Lighter, simpler, cheaper to get. Seems like there are good deals out there.

I'd expect a diligent 421C owner to spend $500/hr for a 100 hour year. That's a budget of $50K to get 20,000 nm of travel. This can vary a lot depending on your locality and aircraft condition.

Mike C.

I'm sure it's not an enormous difference but I can't imagine that a 421 and 340 cost 'the same' to own and operate. Given the 10gph fuel burn difference, nearly identical speed, more expensive O/H costs, I would have to imagine that if you lined up the annual bills for 10 340 operators and 10 421 operators that you would see a consistent theme of higher costs in the 421. The big question is are the cost savings in the 340 worth it when you consider the cabin and higher utility of the 421.

I have owned both a 414 and a 421. They are both great planes and will serve your family well. Personally, I preferred my 421 over the 414. It's quieter, smoother and a faster. Also, unless you buy a 78 or later 414, the 421 has a much bigger nose baggage area. I found that my 421 cost about $500/ hour to operate.

It's not a 10 gph difference. 421 is 750hp total. 340 is 630-670 depending on engines, or an 80-120 hp difference. At 65% power that's a delta of 65hp or about 5gph.

Overhaul costs may be marginally more but what drives a private owners overhaul costs are luck. It costs a lot more to overhaul a 340 than to not overhaul a 421. Is there, on average a difference between 340/421 - yes. Is that difference meaningful and will it predictably accrue to a single owner - no.

I owned a C340A (RAM VI) for 7 years while my 2 boys were fairly young. It's a great family travelling machine. It is not a huge load hauler, but mine had 1800 lbs useful load. I had the 203 gal tankage option, so I could fill the tanks and have 600 lbs payload (two people, maybe 3 if not much baggage) for about 1200 miles, or still have 3-4 hours range and a pretty reasonable payload.

I would think carefully about how long I intend to keep the airplane if I had a family of 5. There is just not enough interior room to be comfortable for 5 bigger people. It'll be OK for a few years while your kids are small. I kept a seat out of mine (as many 340 owners do), so there were 3 seats in the back. If your wife doesn't like to sit in the cockpit, this may be something for you to consider as a 414/421 sized fuselage will more easily accomodate more seats in the back.

As others have said, I think a 421 will cost a bit more, but not excessively so. The variation between individual examples is probably at least as much as the variation in the average between the models. You never want to get a cheapo twin Cessna, always find the cleanest one you can find. Cheap will not be cheap in this case.

340 is a little speedier, mine would true at 200 KTAS running LOP on about 15-16 gph per side depending on altitude. 421 will haul more, burning a little more fuel. 414 will also haul more, though a bit slower, maybe 15 kts.

Other plusses/minuses -

- 340 is smaller by a decent amount, which can affect your ability to get it in a smaller hangar. This could, in fact, be an important ownership issue depending on your availability and cost of hangars. Or no big deal if you can easily get a big enough hangar.
- 414A and 421A/B/C have the bigger nose baggage. I always wished for the bigger nose baggage, it's a really nice feature. Also good for CG management, these aircraft tend to be a hair tail heavy.
- 340 really needs VGs (they all have them nowadays) and probably RAM VI or VII to maximize useful load, as those packages get load upgrades.

Good luck! I always liked my 340.

Minor nit - 421A is short nose. (And Pre 1973 421B are short fuselage - modest stretch from 73 onward)

I owned a Ram VII 340 and flew it 1500 hours before I bought my 1980 421C.
The 340 was a great plane and my choice over a P Baron. Your family could out grow the 340 if you keep it long enough. The extra baggage space and cabin room in the 421 is wonderful for a family hauler. I now have over 1700 hours in my 421C and find it hard to replace. The kids are grown and on their own so the 421C is now a two passenger plane.
I keep looking at turbines but the cost difference does not make "cents" the way I now use the plane.
With any 300 or 400 series Cessna it is "extremely" important you get advice and a prebuy from a real expert like Tony Saxton or Peter Danto. The money you spend will save a lot of heart burn and thousands of dollars.
Jerry