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 Post subject: Re: Why buy Bonanza instead of G1 Cirrus SR22
PostPosted: 25 Jan 2020, 00:18 
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Username Protected wrote:
Cirrus fly-in

Greg


Oh stop, it’s overused. At least be creative.



I honestly hadn't seen it until a friend sent it to me, I was waiting for the next Cirrus thread to post it. :D Besides, Let's get real here. This is Beechtalk, not Cirrrus talk. If I can't make a cirrus joke here, well, that'd be a pisser. :shrug:

Greg

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 Post subject: Re: Why buy Bonanza instead of G1 Cirrus SR22
PostPosted: 25 Jan 2020, 01:00 
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Username Protected wrote:

I honestly hadn't seen it until a friend sent it to me, I was waiting for the next Cirrus thread to post it. :D Besides, Let's get real here. This is Beechtalk, not Cirrrus talk. If I can't make a cirrus joke here, well, that'd be a pisser. :shrug:

Greg


Heh, not sure how you missed it. It’s probably been posted on BT a couple thousand times. I’ll admit the first few hundred were kinda funny.

Thankfully we tend to have a sense of humor too (not my videos):

https://youtu.be/T_T_nINO0e4

https://youtu.be/yOqQtB2Pux4


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 Post subject: Re: Why buy Bonanza instead of G1 Cirrus SR22
PostPosted: 29 Jan 2020, 21:34 
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Aircraft: '76 A36 TAT TN 550
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I have been looking for early to mid 70's F33A or A36. According to asking prices I can get an early G1 Cirrus SR22 for about the same money. The Cirrus are close to chute repack at around $20,000 but do have one if that is a plus and is 20 years newer. I really don't have to have chute. I do have around 100 hours in a SR 22. I like the airplane. Tell me why I should keep looking for a Bonanza and not buy the Cirrus. The Cirrus has just over a 1050# UL but F33A may run into CG issues and A36 get to $$$.
Bruce

Hi Bruce,

Did you ever mention what your budget was? I don’t recall seeing that.

I’ll tell you flat out - we owned a ‘78 Piper Arrow III for 5+ years. After a trip from SoCal to Chicago and back with our 2 very young daughters my wife famously declared it was “Too small and too slow”.

I said “I can fix that”. She said “Then do it”.

The answer was an A36 (we looked at C-210’s, Saratogas and Lances too. That’s a different discussion).

That was in 1990. We are still flying the A36 today. Now my adult daughters (who grew up flying in this exact A36) call and up say “Do you have room for one more”? Or “Can your granddaughter and I come along as well?”.

Anyway - the 6 seaters cost more - that’s because they DO MORE. At surprisingly minimal extra cost (the major one being the acquisition cost difference).

NOBODY can tell you what’s best for you and your family. You get to figure that out on your own. But for us the A36 continues to be the answer to that question.

Good luck.

Jim

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 Post subject: Re: Why buy Bonanza instead of G1 Cirrus SR22
PostPosted: 04 Feb 2020, 14:54 
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After more looking and investigating, the Cirrus will cost more than the Bonanza's I am considering. A comparable Cirrus will be G1 but need the chute repacked and most have high time engines that compare in price to the Bonanzas. I will probably wind up with a F33 unless the perfect situation A36 comes up. Not likely.
Bruce


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 Post subject: Re: Why buy Bonanza instead of G1 Cirrus SR22
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2020, 22:49 
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The avionics upgrades for a Cirrus suck. No G5s, no G3x. You're stuck with steam gauges and those awful Sandells, and no upgrade path to the GFC500. Those would be reason alone to get a Bonanza.


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 Post subject: Re: Why buy Bonanza instead of G1 Cirrus SR22
PostPosted: 13 Feb 2020, 23:04 
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The avionics upgrades for a Cirrus suck. No G5s, no G3x. You're stuck with steam gauges and those awful Sandells, and no upgrade path to the GFC500. Those would be reason alone to get a Bonanza.


Incorrect.

DFC90 Autopilot does almost everything the gfc500 does, but most have at least an stec55x which is pretty good already.

G5 - Cirrus is on the AML.

GI 275 - Cirrus is on the AML

G3x - NOT on the AML but can try a field approval

Aspen - Cirrus is on the AML

Absolutely zero reason to be “stuck” with stem gauges or Sandels in a Cirrus.


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 Post subject: Re: Why buy Bonanza instead of G1 Cirrus SR22
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2020, 02:37 
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Username Protected wrote:
The avionics upgrades for a Cirrus suck. No G5s, no G3x. You're stuck with steam gauges and those awful Sandells, and no upgrade path to the GFC500. Those would be reason alone to get a Bonanza.


Incorrect.

DFC90 Autopilot does almost everything the gfc500 does, but most have at least an stec55x which is pretty good already.

G5 - Cirrus is on the AML.

GI 275 - Cirrus is on the AML

G3x - NOT on the AML but can try a field approval

Aspen - Cirrus is on the AML

Absolutely zero reason to be “stuck” with stem gauges or Sandels in a Cirrus.


When did they add Cirrus to the G5 AML? The FAA website doesn't show any Cirrus model on the AML. I know a couple guys who would want them.

The 55X has all sorts of problems and the planes I've flown with it all seem to have issues. The DFC90 is not nearly as good as the GFC500, though better than the 55X.

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 Post subject: Re: Why buy Bonanza instead of G1 Cirrus SR22
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2020, 07:16 
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Username Protected wrote:
The DFC90 is not nearly as good as the GFC500, though better than the 55X.

What is the DFC90 missing that renders it “not nearly as good as the GFC500”?

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 Post subject: Re: Why buy Bonanza instead of G1 Cirrus SR22
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2020, 08:19 
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When did they add Cirrus to the G5 AML? The FAA website doesn't show any Cirrus model on the AML. I know a couple guys who would want them.

The 55X has all sorts of problems and the planes I've flown with it all seem to have issues. The DFC90 is not nearly as good as the GFC500, though better than the 55X.


G5 was added June of last year. It’s on Garmin site with the STC AML info. I have no idea why anyone would want one though when both the GI 275 and Aspen are available and far superior. I believe the G500Txi is available too but couldn’t find the AML.


The 55X isn’t bad. Most of the issues have to do with setup of the aircraft especially the SR20 where Cirrus skipped autopilot servos and runs everything through the trim system - yes it’s indeed stupid, but only applies to the SR20. The only other complaints I have heard are situations that I believe gpss tends to mostly address.

As far as I know the DFC90 does everything the GFC500 does except for the envelope protection stuff while the AP is disengaged. The dfc90 is attitude aware, has a straight and level button, and is known for exceptional tracking on approaches.


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 Post subject: Re: Why buy Bonanza instead of G1 Cirrus SR22
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2020, 22:16 
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Username Protected wrote:

When did they add Cirrus to the G5 AML? The FAA website doesn't show any Cirrus model on the AML. I know a couple guys who would want them.

The 55X has all sorts of problems and the planes I've flown with it all seem to have issues. The DFC90 is not nearly as good as the GFC500, though better than the 55X.


G5 was added June of last year. It’s on Garmin site with the STC AML info. I have no idea why anyone would want one though when both the GI 275 and Aspen are available and far superior. I believe the G500Txi is available too but couldn’t find the AML.


The 55X isn’t bad. Most of the issues have to do with setup of the aircraft especially the SR20 where Cirrus skipped autopilot servos and runs everything through the trim system - yes it’s indeed stupid, but only applies to the SR20. The only other complaints I have heard are situations that I believe gpss tends to mostly address.

As far as I know the DFC90 does everything the GFC500 does except for the envelope protection stuff while the AP is disengaged. The dfc90 is attitude aware, has a straight and level button, and is known for exceptional tracking on approaches.


Every 55X I've flown has had issues with GPSS, maintaining heading, hunting, deciding to randomly climb and descend, etc. I'd rather have an STEC30 with GPSS and simple alt hold.

The DFC90 costs more, does less and either requires you to reuse servos (for more than the GFC500 with servos) or buy Avidyne's - which aren't as good as Garmin's brushless GFC500 ones.

Also, I prefer the G5 form factor to the GI275 for PFD and HSI functions, and removing a vacuum system with Aspen requires 2 of their rather expensive pieces. Of course, I fly behind a G3x, so that is superior to either of those options - and gets you the GFC500.

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 Post subject: Re: Why buy Bonanza instead of G1 Cirrus SR22
PostPosted: 14 Feb 2020, 23:11 
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Also, I prefer the G5 form factor to the GI275 for PFD and HSI functions, and removing a vacuum system with Aspen requires 2 of their rather expensive pieces. Of course, I fly behind a G3x, so that is superior to either of those options - and gets you the GFC500.


The amount of data on the G5 is pretty limited though. Also the SR22 never even came with a vacuum system :shrug: . I agree the G3x is better, but it’s not like you’re missing much in a Cirrus with an Aspen setup and dfc90. It’s sure not junk. You could always try for a field approval for the G3x... decent chance it’d get approved.

Anyway, point is you’re far from stuck with junk avionics if you fly any Cirrus.


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 Post subject: Re: Why buy Bonanza instead of G1 Cirrus SR22
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2020, 03:07 
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Anyway, point is you’re far from stuck with junk avionics if you fly any Cirrus.


You are far better off with upgrade options in a Bonanza, however.

I personally dislike the G1000/Perspective. Not the screens - those are nice - but the lack of touchscreens and the fact that they behave basically like giant 430s. Let alone the Entegra or Sandell.


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 Post subject: Re: Why buy Bonanza instead of G1 Cirrus SR22
PostPosted: 15 Feb 2020, 17:52 
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Anyway, point is you’re far from stuck with junk avionics if you fly any Cirrus.


You are far better off with upgrade options in a Bonanza, however.

I personally dislike the G1000/Perspective. Not the screens - those are nice - but the lack of touchscreens and the fact that they behave basically like giant 430s. Let alone the Entegra or Sandell.


So you only like the G3x with the GFC500 and that's why Cirrus avionics upgrade options "suck" despite virtually everything being available EXCEPT those two. Got it.

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 Post subject: Re: Why buy Bonanza instead of G1 Cirrus SR22
PostPosted: 16 Feb 2020, 02:36 
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You are far better off with upgrade options in a Bonanza, however.

I personally dislike the G1000/Perspective. Not the screens - those are nice - but the lack of touchscreens and the fact that they behave basically like giant 430s. Let alone the Entegra or Sandell.


So you only like the G3x with the GFC500 and that's why Cirrus avionics upgrade options "suck" despite virtually everything being available EXCEPT those two. Got it.


No, that isn't the only issue. If you want to go Dynon HDX, you aren't getting that on a Cirrus either.

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 Post subject: Re: Why buy Bonanza instead of G1 Cirrus SR22
PostPosted: 16 Feb 2020, 11:21 
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Username Protected wrote:

No, that isn't the only issue. If you want to go Dynon HDX, you aren't getting that on a Cirrus either.


Seriously? Give it a rest. You don't need any of this stuff on a Cirrus, except maybe a gen 1, and there are PLENTY of options for that. Cirrus planes are still relatively new, and when they start aging, the market will solve that, like they did for the Bonanza and practically every other popular GA plane.

Enjoy your Bonanza and quit bashing a plane you know nothing about.

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