18 Apr 2024, 07:19 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Darkaero? Posted: 05 Jan 2022, 11:52 |
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Joined: 11/22/12 Posts: 2595 Post Likes: +2352 Company: Retired Location: Lynnwood, WA (KPAE)
Aircraft: 1993 Bonanza A36TN
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Username Protected wrote: if they had put a slightly larger wing on it and gotten the stall speed down Just changing from split flaps to something more effective would lower the stall speed enough that they might not need a larger wing. The split flaps they're using are light and simple but don't add much lift, mostly drag. The stall speed is already too high at the design weight, what will it be as it gains weight, as all designs do?
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Post subject: Re: Darkaero? Posted: 05 Jan 2022, 12:14 |
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Joined: 02/28/17 Posts: 1213 Post Likes: +1191 Location: Panama City, FL
Aircraft: Velocity XL-RG
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Username Protected wrote: But I applaud them targeting high speed, instead of just doing what many other kits will do.
I'm very interested in this kit. Wish it had A/C and a ballistic chute too, but it's still very compelling. I'm very impressed with their approach and work so far. This is the polar opposite of what the raptor guy was doing. My point is that I think a high stall speed could hurt their potential sales numbers. I know that a lot of pilots that I've taken up in my Velocity were... surprised by the 65kt stall speed. And I'm guessing that may be part of the reason for the higher insurance premiums over slower landing aircraft. I've heard of a few people who were looking at building a Velocity decided on an RV after seeing the landing distance and insurance costs. Of course this is all just speculation and guessing on my part. I still like what those brothers are doing.
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Post subject: Re: Darkaero? Posted: 05 Jan 2022, 13:26 |
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Joined: 02/21/18 Posts: 619 Post Likes: +780
Aircraft: C182R
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Username Protected wrote: Correction: The specs say it stalls at 70MPH. So 60kts... Still too fast IMO for an airplane of that size.
Why would you say that aircraft size and stall speed need to be correlated?
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Post subject: Re: Darkaero? Posted: 05 Jan 2022, 13:48 |
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Joined: 07/19/10 Posts: 2728 Post Likes: +1167 Company: Keller Williams Realty Location: Madison, WI (91C)
Aircraft: 1967 Bonanza V35
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Username Protected wrote: So... two people fly 1000 miles in a day, get into the one set of clothes they could pack, stay overnight, and come home? Long weekends trips. Did it with my wife many times, didn't need more than a duffel bag of spare clothes and some toiletries. Furthest we went was IA -> FL for Thanksgiving one year, IA -> San Antonio, TX another year. In both cases it was about 5h-6h up in the air. If you could shorten the trip to under 4h it would be perfectly doable to fly out on Friday, spend Saturday and half of the Sunday somewhere and come back home after lunch on Sunday.
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Post subject: Re: Darkaero? Posted: 05 Jan 2022, 13:52 |
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Joined: 07/19/10 Posts: 2728 Post Likes: +1167 Company: Keller Williams Realty Location: Madison, WI (91C)
Aircraft: 1967 Bonanza V35
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Username Protected wrote: Correction: The specs say it stalls at 70MPH. So 60kts... Still too fast IMO for an airplane of that size.
Why would you say that aircraft size and stall speed need to be correlated? Because stall speed influences runway requirement and it's kind of comical if you have to park your airplane 50 miles away from home because it's the closest airport with 6000ft runway.
So I'd say potential 'personal airplane' design should look into how close to home it could be parked for potential clients. I'd be curious to see study like 'if we make it require xxxx ft runway, what percentage of potential clients will be able to keep it less than 30 min drive from home'
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Post subject: Re: Darkaero? Posted: 05 Jan 2022, 15:36 |
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Joined: 02/28/17 Posts: 1213 Post Likes: +1191 Location: Panama City, FL
Aircraft: Velocity XL-RG
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Username Protected wrote: Why would you say that aircraft size and stall speed need to be correlated? They don't. My mistake.
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Post subject: Re: Darkaero? Posted: 05 Jan 2022, 16:18 |
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Joined: 01/23/13 Posts: 8069 Post Likes: +5760 Company: Kokotele Guitar Works Location: Albany, NY
Aircraft: C-182RG, C-172, PA28
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Username Protected wrote: So... two people fly 1000 miles in a day, get into the one set of clothes they could pack, stay overnight, and come home? Long weekends trips. Did it with my wife many times, didn't need more than a duffel bag of spare clothes and some toiletries. Furthest we went was IA -> FL for Thanksgiving one year, IA -> San Antonio, TX another year. In both cases it was about 5h-6h up in the air. If you could shorten the trip to under 4h it would be perfectly doable to fly out on Friday, spend Saturday and half of the Sunday somewhere and come back home after lunch on Sunday.
I think you're making my point. If I told SWMBO we were flying to Chicago for a weekend (round it to 650nm for us) but she could only bring one change of clothes, she would tell me to enjoy myself. This is not a "two people plugs bags" plane, this is a "two people and one small bag" plane, and that has fewer potential buyers. It doesn't look like it will hold as much as an RV-7.
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Post subject: Re: Darkaero? Posted: 05 Jan 2022, 16:22 |
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Joined: 07/19/10 Posts: 2728 Post Likes: +1167 Company: Keller Williams Realty Location: Madison, WI (91C)
Aircraft: 1967 Bonanza V35
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Username Protected wrote: I think you're making my point. If I told SWMBO we were flying to Chicago for a weekend (round it to 650nm for us) but she could only bring one change of clothes, she would tell me to enjoy myself. This is not a "two people plugs bags" plane, this is a "two people and one small bag" plane, and that has fewer potential buyers. It doesn't look like it will hold as much as an RV-7. Well, then apparently I married better than you. Mine doesn't need to change clothes several time a day to look (and feel) good But I agree, that limits market for the airplane.
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Post subject: Re: Darkaero? Posted: 05 Jan 2022, 16:29 |
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Joined: 06/25/10 Posts: 13129 Post Likes: +19162 Company: Keybilly Adventures Location: FD51
Aircraft: P35, GC1B
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Username Protected wrote: I think you're making my point. If I told SWMBO we were flying to Chicago for a weekend (round it to 650nm for us) but she could only bring one change of clothes, she would tell me to enjoy myself. This is not a "two people plugs bags" plane, this is a "two people and one small bag" plane, and that has fewer potential buyers. It doesn't look like it will hold as much as an RV-7. Well, then apparently I married better than you. Mine doesn't need to change clothes several time a day to look (and feel) good But I agree, that limits market for the airplane.
_________________ “Fear is the Mind-Killer”
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Post subject: Re: Darkaero? Posted: 05 Jan 2022, 17:23 |
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Joined: 05/25/11 Posts: 993 Post Likes: +1024 Location: Indianapolis, IN (KUMP)
Aircraft: 1982 Bonanza A36
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Username Protected wrote: I am curious how many $1,000 deposits they have received. According to their newsletter, at end of Dec. they had 133 deposits.
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Post subject: Re: Darkaero? Posted: 05 Jan 2022, 18:10 |
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Joined: 08/05/16 Posts: 3109 Post Likes: +2225 Company: Tack Mobile Location: KBJC
Aircraft: C441
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Username Protected wrote: It's a cool project but I agree as a cross country cruiser it needs to be at least as big as an RV9... that said, I really don't understand how people get by with anything smaller than a Tbone, so maybe it will work for some people. Airplanes are compromises, Vans makes all of them equal. This one trades size for speed, which is good because there are other companies that have already done the balanced one. Younger audiences want speed over practicality, and carbon fiber is cool. There's a market for it. I actually think if they can make some adjustments like a better flap system, air conditioning, and a bit more baggage space, there are plenty of people who would pay a bit more for an XL version like velocity did, even if this XL version gained 100lbs and lost 5 knots.
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Post subject: Re: Darkaero? Posted: 05 Jan 2022, 20:35 |
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Joined: 04/28/21 Posts: 100 Post Likes: +62 Company: Charwood Partners
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Username Protected wrote: I am curious how many $1,000 deposits they have received. According to their newsletter, at end of Dec. they had 133 deposits.
I sent in my deposit and was told I have position 134.
My wife told me I needed another project now that the Flagstaff house is done...
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