banner
banner

28 Mar 2024, 08:28 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 120 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 8  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2020, 11:21 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 06/05/11
Posts: 387
Post Likes: +172
Location: Atlanta, GA
Aircraft: SR22
Username Protected wrote:
Just as they should be. A plane that can fill the seats and the fuel tanks needs bigger fuel tanks.

Or more seats.


And a bathroom. :ohno:


:D
_________________
Wayne

LinkedIn
instagram: waynecease


Top

 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2020, 16:01 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/30/09
Posts: 3343
Post Likes: +1948
Location: $ilicon Vall€y
Aircraft: Columbia 400
Username Protected wrote:
So, pilot and co-pilot, each weighing no more than 144 lbs. each (or combined weight of 288 lbs.) with full fuel and no baggage. So it is basically a single place aircraft for long distance flight (like many light planes are).

Also, I'm more impressed with demonstrated cruise speeds than projected cruise speeds.

Dan



The photo of the airframe with the two guys standing next to it, show how tiny this thing is. Empty weight of 750lbs! Total gross of 1500lbs.

The engine is interesting. It's only 200hp, 5.2 liter, 6-cylinder and only weighs 108kg (238lbs). About 120lbs lighter than an IO360. No turbo, so power output will be low at the listed ceiling of 20,000'. Don't know this engine at all, but it looks interesting.

https://ulpower.com/en/engines/ul520/ul520is

That means the entire airframe sans engine will weigh 512lbs.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2020, 16:52 
Offline


User avatar
 WWW  Profile




Joined: 01/23/13
Posts: 8010
Post Likes: +5705
Company: Kokotele Guitar Works
Location: Albany, NY
Aircraft: C-182RG, C-172, PA28
Username Protected wrote:
The photo of the airframe with the two guys standing next to it, show how tiny this thing is. Empty weight of 750lbs! Total gross of 1500lbs.

The engine is interesting. It's only 200hp, 5.2 liter, 6-cylinder and only weighs 108kg (238lbs). About 120lbs lighter than an IO360. No turbo, so power output will be low at the listed ceiling of 20,000'. Don't know this engine at all, but it looks interesting.

https://ulpower.com/en/engines/ul520/ul520is

That means the entire airframe sans engine will weigh 512lbs.


Gotta applaud a couple of young guys tackling a project like this, and I hope they're successful.

The dimensions work out to about the same as a Lancair Legacy, though maybe 300 pounds pounds lighter. I suppose that it's possible that 21st century manufacturing helps them make a design that saves so much weight. On the other hand, this is their engine mount. I don't see how the hell this structure is going to be nearly strong enough to hold on to an engine in any but the gentlest flight conditions.

Attachment:
engine mount.jpg


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2020, 18:40 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/22/07
Posts: 12813
Post Likes: +13206
Company: Cogswell Cogs, LLC
Location: KPTK (SE Michigan)
Aircraft: C205
That may work for static display. Otherwise; it seems insufficient for dynamic loads.

_________________
Life is a DiY project.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2020, 20:34 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 04/20/15
Posts: 555
Post Likes: +311
Location: KFAT
I hear what you guys are saying about the engine mount, but it weighs ~80 or almost 1/3 less lbs less than a IO-360. Maybe that's part of the idea behind the baby engine mounts.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2020, 21:01 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 08/24/13
Posts: 8406
Post Likes: +3662
Company: Aviation Tools / CCX
Location: KSMQ New Jersey
Aircraft: TBM700C2
Username Protected wrote:
I hear what you guys are saying about the engine mount, but it weighs ~80 or almost 1/3 less lbs less than a IO-360. Maybe that's part of the idea behind the baby engine mounts.


Still insufficient. That thing is rigid in no axis. It also puts the loads in the middle of the bulkhead


Top

 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2020, 21:35 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 12/08/12
Posts: 810
Post Likes: +954
Location: Ukiah, California
Username Protected wrote:
The photo of the airframe with the two guys standing next to it, show how tiny this thing is. Empty weight of 750lbs! Total gross of 1500lbs.

The engine is interesting. It's only 200hp, 5.2 liter, 6-cylinder and only weighs 108kg (238lbs). About 120lbs lighter than an IO360. No turbo, so power output will be low at the listed ceiling of 20,000'. Don't know this engine at all, but it looks interesting.

https://ulpower.com/en/engines/ul520/ul520is

That means the entire airframe sans engine will weigh 512lbs.


Gotta applaud a couple of young guys tackling a project like this, and I hope they're successful.

The dimensions work out to about the same as a Lancair Legacy, though maybe 300 pounds pounds lighter. I suppose that it's possible that 21st century manufacturing helps them make a design that saves so much weight. On the other hand, this is their engine mount. I don't see how the hell this structure is going to be nearly strong enough to hold on to an engine in any but the gentlest flight conditions.

Attachment:
engine mount.jpg


...and at +6g, that engine will weigh 1,428 lbs. The picture of that engine mount looks like it would be too weak to be a bicycle rack on the back of an SUV.

Dan

Top

 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2020, 21:41 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 03/01/18
Posts: 845
Post Likes: +611
Aircraft: V35
We should include the Darkaero crew in the discussion so they can address the issues BEFORE production


Top

 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2020, 22:42 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 06/01/16
Posts: 453
Post Likes: +340
Location: Citrus County Florida
Aircraft: Shopping
Did anyone bother to download the engine installation PDF? I did, look on page 20, you might be surprised at what you will find. It does not make me feel any different about how I think the mount is attached to the airframe but does explain why the attachment to the engine looks the way it does.

_________________
Anthony Dennis


Top

 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2020, 23:50 
Offline



 Profile




Joined: 11/22/12
Posts: 2572
Post Likes: +2329
Company: Retired
Location: Lynnwood, WA (KPAE)
Aircraft: 1993 Bonanza A36TN
Username Protected wrote:
Did anyone bother to download the engine installation PDF?
I didn't find that on the DA site. Got a link?


Top

 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 07 Jan 2020, 01:04 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 06/01/16
Posts: 453
Post Likes: +340
Location: Citrus County Florida
Aircraft: Shopping
https://ulpower.com/en/engines/ul520/ul520is#downloads

While your there look at the illustrated parts pdf, again page 20. Shows the rear mount plate, starter adapter etc.

_________________
Anthony Dennis


Top

 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 07 Jan 2020, 01:43 
Offline



 Profile




Joined: 11/22/12
Posts: 2572
Post Likes: +2329
Company: Retired
Location: Lynnwood, WA (KPAE)
Aircraft: 1993 Bonanza A36TN
Thanks for the link. It shows that the engine mounting is four bolts at the back of the engine, which is fine, but nobody wondered where the mounting points were, all of the concerns were that it doesn't look strong enough. That diagram doesn't address those concerns at all.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 07 Jan 2020, 05:28 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/31/12
Posts: 3094
Post Likes: +5447
Company: French major
Location: France
Aircraft: Ejet
I find it extremely disappointing that there has been no mention of a polar. Yet!

_________________
Singham!


Top

 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 07 Jan 2020, 13:45 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 06/01/16
Posts: 453
Post Likes: +340
Location: Citrus County Florida
Aircraft: Shopping
Username Protected wrote:
Thanks for the link. It shows that the engine mounting is four bolts at the back of the engine, which is fine, but nobody wondered where the mounting points were, all of the concerns were that it doesn't look strong enough. That diagram doesn't address those concerns at all.



I was not saying it did, the install manual says - "The design of the engine mount must take into account the structural loadings" it also goes on to say there is a front mount available which is why the mount looks the way it does.

I agree it appears to be fragile but it is really no different than the way the wings are attached on a Bonanza, still 4 bolts holding it on.

_________________
Anthony Dennis


Top

 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 07 Jan 2020, 13:59 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 08/24/13
Posts: 8406
Post Likes: +3662
Company: Aviation Tools / CCX
Location: KSMQ New Jersey
Aircraft: TBM700C2
Username Protected wrote:
Thanks for the link. It shows that the engine mounting is four bolts at the back of the engine, which is fine, but nobody wondered where the mounting points were, all of the concerns were that it doesn't look strong enough. That diagram doesn't address those concerns at all.



I was not saying it did, the install manual says - "The design of the engine mount must take into account the structural loadings" it also goes on to say there is a front mount available which is why the mount looks the way it does.

I agree it appears to be fragile but it is really no different than the way the wings are attached on a Bonanza, still 4 bolts holding it on.


It is completely different.

Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 120 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 8  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.wilco-85x100.png.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.tempest.jpg.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.AAI.jpg.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.tat-85x100.png.
.Latitude.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.daytona.jpg.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.midwest2.jpg.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.Marsh.jpg.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.centex-85x50.jpg.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.