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19 May 2022, 18:29 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2020, 12:21 
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Joined: 02/21/15
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Aircraft: C182
Any discussion on Beechtalk yet on Darkaero

https://www.darkaero.com/

275mph 1700sm plus VFR reserves with 288 pounds on 77 gallons 1500lb retractable homebuilt designed, not yet flown.

-Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2020, 17:00 
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Looks interesting, fast and efficient, but it looks pretty tight. I hope they are successful, looks like it has real potential. Kind of a polar opposite to the Raptor in just about every area. It will be interesting if they can get the final kit to the level where the parts can just be assembled, as opposed to fitting, trimming and prepping for paint.


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 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2020, 17:22 
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Joined: 12/22/07
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Company: Midwest Chemtrails LLC
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Unlike the Peter Muller (Raptor), the three brothers behind DarkAero have (relevant) engineering degrees. But ... experience matters a lot. The professionals working for the established manufacturers have struggled with various programs and test pilots have died when things did perform like the computer models predicted.

I am curious how many $1,000 deposits they have received.

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 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2020, 19:29 
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Joined: 06/17/14
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Location: KJYO
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They are also utilizing newer aircraft engines based upon a proven design that has been in aviation for decades. It will be interesting to see if they have TKS options for FIKI that a builder can add easily.

It looks like a Glassair and Lancair on ‘roids.
...but there ain’t no room for a Homer Bucket, 3 mil liner, and pool noodle!


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 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2020, 21:32 
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Since I don't own or fly the plane, I did the next best thing - bought the T-Shirt!


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 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2020, 21:43 
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Since I don't own or fly the plane, I did the next best thing - bought the T-Shirt!

Me too!


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 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 01 Jan 2020, 22:03 
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Those kinds of performance numbers would indicate the biggest turbo engine, smallest airframe, highest wing loading, and highest altitude cruise possible in a light airplane. It’s not voodoo or wishful thinking, but it sounds like the max you can wring out by making all design decisions around cruise speed.

Impressive performance if it meets the predictions, but questionable practicality for all the same reasons as the Lancair IV, with an even smaller cabin.

I would not be comfortable in a non deice, non pressurized plane at FL250 on a pressure oxygen mask, with a high wing loading and (probably) some tricky handling characteristics, on long flights across weather systems. We know the accident record on the highest performance experimentals (Lancair IV, Questair Venture, Swearingen SX300, etc) for all the same reasons.


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 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2020, 04:06 
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Nemesis NXT did around 350 knots on a 350HP twin Turbo 540 and it still looks fast. It also looks like the baby brother to what these guys are doing.

Unfortunately the High performance singles like the Lancair IV take a special pilot that is on her or his game, as you already noted. If they can deliver the kit for $76k and the engine, avionics, and paint are extra, this will be a fast plane for under $250K.


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 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2020, 14:57 
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Joined: 01/30/09
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Username Protected wrote:

I would not be comfortable in a non deice, non pressurized plane at FL250 on a pressure oxygen mask, with a high wing loading and (probably) some tricky handling characteristics, on long flights across weather systems. We know the accident record on the highest performance experimentals (Lancair IV, Questair Venture, Swearingen SX300, etc) for all the same reasons.



You know, a Columbia 400/TTx or a SR22T does the same mission, sans the tricky handling. I have flown my 400 well into the flight levels, and I'm not deiced either. No need for a pressure mask, as a standard O2 mask is quite adequate. At FL250, the COL4/TTx are claimed 238ktas aircraft, seat 4 comfortably.

(238kt = 275mph)

What is interesting about the Columbia airframe, having sprung forth from the Lancair line, is that the 350 (non-turbo) and the 400 (turbo) have significant differences in the airframe. Not many people know that, and presume they are simply turbo and non-turbo versions of the same thing.

The development and refinement of the 400 turned up a number of issues for certification by the FAA and EASA, which required some aerodynamic changes to make the aircraft handle well at high altitude and have a very benign flight envelope. So, it has a number of significant differences from its sister aircraft, the 350 and the 300.

I suspect these guys will find many challenges as well trying to build this. I rather doubt they are going to fly 1700 miles with reserves on 77 gallons of fuel at that speed. Unless this thing is shaped like a lawn dart.

The science of subsonic flight has been well established since the 1950's. There's really not much unknown. We get better materials to work with, which allow for better airfoils and lower drag airframes, but there are likely no breakthrough aerodynamic opportunities to be had that are going to be a game changer.


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 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 03 Jan 2020, 15:37 
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Joined: 09/29/10
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Last month’s Sport Aviation magazine had a good article on these guys and their project.

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 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2020, 21:58 
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Paging @ChristianBailey

These are Berkut numbers. I believe 50 kits were sold, perhaps 7 were built. 230 KTAS on 8 GPH in the flight levels (CB correct me if I'm off here). Rutan-designed two seat tandem canard, NA io550, essentially an overpowered retractable carbon fiber long-EZ.

It is, aerodynamically, feasible. Unlike the Raptor et al.

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 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2020, 20:57 
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So, pilot and co-pilot, each weighing no more than 144 lbs. each (or combined weight of 288 lbs.) with full fuel and no baggage. So it is basically a single place aircraft for long distance flight (like many light planes are).

Also, I'm more impressed with demonstrated cruise speeds than projected cruise speeds.

Dan


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 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2020, 21:40 
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basically a single place aircraft for long distance flight (like many light planes are).
Just as they should be. A plane that can fill the seats and the fuel tanks needs bigger fuel tanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2020, 22:09 
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basically a single place aircraft for long distance flight (like many light planes are).
Just as they should be. A plane that can fill the seats and the fuel tanks needs bigger fuel tanks.

I like that Dave. Brilliantly terse and on point.
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 Post subject: Re: Darkaero?
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2020, 07:36 
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Company: USAF Simulator Instructor
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Username Protected wrote:
basically a single place aircraft for long distance flight (like many light planes are).
Just as they should be. A plane that can fill the seats and the fuel tanks needs bigger fuel tanks.

Or more seats.
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