There are no low cost turbines.

There are 3 costs:

1. acquisition
2. fuel
3. maintenance/tbo/life

Reduce one, and the others go up.

The trick is getting the balance of materials and precision and enough profit to sustain the manufacturer on a low-volume item, while providing fuel cost efficiency, and a long enough life without scheduled and unscheduled maintenance.

Cheap to buy, means it will burn lots of fuel and will probably have a shorter life and more maintenance costs.

Optimizing fuel costs requires greater precision in manufacturing and materials operating at higher temperature.

Optimizing maintenance cost means more durable materials and manufacturing costs, and operating at lower pressure and temperature.

Push hard on one button, the other two pop up in return. Pushing the buttons that optimize the business use-case generally is what works. Some optimal combination of acquisition, fuel, and maintenance/downtime all have to be balanced to the needs of the job.

A job needs a turbine, and a turbine needs a job.

The rolls Royce M250-B17F/2 has been around for a long long time...

What do you think the cost to MFG is? It sells for $700k new as a single...

How does that info fit into your concept model?

I dont know what that one costs but I think 9,000,000 per copy is close for the GE on the Max.

I've heard pricing a lot lower than that, but who knows what the OEM can get it for in volume.

M250-B17 produces 450hp (flat rated) for 3500hrs (TBO) and 29gph in cruise, occupies 19.5" x 45" and weighs 212lbs, with little scheduled maintenance and very high reliability.

Can you do a better power/weight/size/fuel/tbo/maintenance to cost-ratio? With world-wide parts and AOG support?

A TSO550B is $163,000 list price (no core), produces 350hp (take off power) for 1800 hrs (TBO), 22gph in cruise, occupies 42x42" and weighs 570lbs, has a lot of scheduled maintenance and a lot less reliability.

Which one's better? I dunno. Depends on what you're doing with them.

If you can build a better engine, go for it. The world will beat a path to your door.

I've heard pricing a lot lower than that, but who knows what the OEM can get it for in volume.

M250-B17 produces 450hp (flat rated) for 3500hrs (TBO) and 29gph in cruise, occupies 19.5" x 45" and weighs 212lbs, with little scheduled maintenance and very high reliability.

Can you do a better power/weight/size/fuel/tbo/maintenance to cost-ratio? With world-wide parts and AOG support?

A TSO550B is $163,000 list price (no core), produces 350hp (take off power) for 1800 hrs (TBO), 22gph in cruise, occupies 42x42" and weighs 570lbs, has a lot of scheduled maintenance and a lot less reliability.

Which one's better? I dunno. Depends on what you're doing with them.

If you can build a better engine, go for it. The world will beat a path to your door.

why not buy one with 500-1000 hours on it?

Except that the TBO is just 300 hours, so the per hour engine reserve alone makes it expensive to run, plus the fuel burn.

Regenerative turbine TP : It's here & it's NOW : TurboTech https://www.turbotech-aero.com/solutions/#turbogenerator

They have started moving the first units to customers and the price is $50K for the 100hp TP.

While the price is attractive that seems like an insanely high fuel burn per Horsepower... for a generator.... almost the same as the 450hp m250.. and now I have to carry batteries and a an electric motor on top of that... for GA it is of no use

It's 15 to 20 LITERS per Hour, NOT gallons !

And I'm talking about the Turbo-Prop, NO batteries , no electric motors ...

It's 15 to 20 LITERS per Hour, NOT gallons !

And I'm talking about the Turbo-Prop, NO batteries , no electric motors ...

You linked to the turbo-generator genset version. The turboprop is above it on that same page.


So I took a look at it - there are some pretty strong claims, but not much actual data given. If you take their advertised numbers on the the turboprop, it works out to a claimed bsfc of 0.37 lb/hp/hr (0.22kg/kwhr). That is very ambitious, even for a regenerative gas turbine. That's basically triple or quadruple the bsfc of similar-scale gas turbines.

Honestly, 0.22kg/kwhr is in the range of large-scale stationary regenerative gas turbines with very high pressure ratios, multiple power turbines and gaseous fuels. Given this is a small scale turbine engine, with what appears to be a single-stage compressor and a single power turbine, I am skeptical, but would like to see more actual data.

Here's the TP
https://www.turbotech-aero.com/solutions/#turboprop

Interesting that they have recently up-dated the information on the TP version, including increasing the power output from 75kW to 90kW as well as increasing the weight from 55 kg to 64 kg .

Their benchmark is the Rotax 912 which has a BSFC of 0.28kg/kwhr and last time we spoke, they were on mark.

Agreed, those are very impressive figures particularly the SFC, but I know these guys and they are a very serious group, with a very serious institutional backer (SAFRAN) , so I don't believe they would be distorting reality.

I will pay them a visit and report back.

What’s the R&D cost on a 400hp TP to replace every engine in the GA fleet that currently uses 280-310hp engines? How many would be sold if priced at $80k? How long to get your money back? I’d put up 20k for shares in that company.

Val