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 Post subject: Re: Otto Aviation Celera 500L Flew This Week
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2021, 19:20 
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Here's a PT6.

Cool.

TAS shows as 309 KTAS. I thought Epics were a bit faster than that. Still, 48 GPH is pretty good economy.

What is the thing at the center of the glare shield with one green LED? An AOA display?

The little status display to the left shows O2 and N2 pressures. What is the N2 used for? Emergency gear extension or brakes?

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Otto Aviation Celera 500L Flew This Week
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2021, 22:14 
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Username Protected wrote:
What is the thing at the center of the glare shield with one green LED? An AOA display?


Yep, Alpha Systems Merlin.

http://www.alphasystemsaoa.com/index.php?id=59

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 Post subject: Re: Otto Aviation Celera 500L Flew This Week
PostPosted: 09 Nov 2021, 12:38 
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That's a good article. I was thinking of an earlier one, probably late 1980s, that discussed the lifting surfaces but also included even more points, such as the flow between the nacelles and fuselage and how that works with the pusher props and the wing intersections in that area.

I want to say it was about 1988 because I'm pretty sure I had a subscription that year (birthday present), but I can mis-remember things with the best of 'em. :D

Just re-reading this thread. This is probably the article you were thinking about:
Performance Art by Peter Garrison December 1988 Flying Magazine


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 Post subject: Re: Otto Aviation Celera 500L Flew This Week
PostPosted: 09 Nov 2021, 12:45 
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Username Protected wrote:
Just re-reading this thread. This is probably the article you were thinking about:
Performance Art by Peter Garrison December 1988 Flying Magazine

That's the one!

I remember reading the part about exactly 2 sq.ft. "equivalent flat plate area" in his calculations and performance estimations, and being amused that it was an arbitrary number as well as rather optimistic. And there it is, second page, part way down the first column.


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 Post subject: Re: Otto Aviation Celera 500L Flew This Week
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2021, 19:46 
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Username Protected wrote:
Here's a PT6.

Cool.

TAS shows as 309 KTAS. I thought Epics were a bit faster than that. Still, 48 GPH is pretty good economy.

What is the thing at the center of the glare shield with one green LED? An AOA display?

The little status display to the left shows O2 and N2 pressures. What is the N2 used for? Emergency gear extension or brakes?

Mike C.


305-310 is all it would do at 34,000', ISA+9, full fuel, and a few guys on board. Not the fastest altitude for the plane.

It's a good 330-335 ktas plane in the high 20s on 60-65 gph. Normal cruise power, ISA, and mid weights.

AOA is that little display. The experimental LTs didn't come with anything for stall awareness.

and you're on the right track for N2. It's for gear blow down if any electrical or hydraulic pump failure.

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 Post subject: Re: Otto Aviation Celera 500L Flew This Week
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2021, 12:01 
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Username Protected wrote:
Here's a PT6.


Really cool photo, Neema. I notice what appears to be a red "Cabin Pressure" flag on the PFD and that the cabin differential is at 6.7psi, also highlighted in red. What is the maximum cabin diff for this aircraft? Sorry for not having read through more of your posts before asking this, since you may have answered this question already.

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 Post subject: Re: Otto Aviation Celera 500L Flew This Week
PostPosted: 07 Dec 2021, 23:20 
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Username Protected wrote:
Here's a PT6.


Really cool photo, Neema. I notice what appears to be a red "Cabin Pressure" flag on the PFD and that the cabin differential is at 6.7psi, also highlighted in red. What is the maximum cabin diff for this aircraft? Sorry for not having read through more of your posts before asking this, since you may have answered this question already.


I've seen max diff P as high as 6.8 psi on LTs. Some guys run theirs a little lower.

The little cabin altitude/diff P screen and alert and CO Guardian, which triggers the message in the Garmin panel, were set low in that plane.

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 Post subject: Re: Otto Aviation Celera 500L Flew This Week
PostPosted: 17 Jun 2022, 13:19 
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They most likely did not take their family or friends up with them. Haha I didn't say it could not be done at all but I think its crazy for passengers and every day pilots to be at FL500 with a single source of pressurization.


Unless they had this fashionable outer wear...
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 Post subject: Re: Otto Aviation Celera 500L Flew This Week
PostPosted: 18 Jun 2022, 02:39 
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FL500 in a single piston seems absolutely crazy. I am nervous at FL430 with twin jets to feed the bleed air.

I just do not see how thats going to get certified, and even if it does who would want to be up there with that little of power to rely on? You would almost have to have O2 mask on all the time. How long can you stay conscious at FL500 if you have engine failure?

Maybe this was already discussed here as it seems to be a huge hurtle.

Mike



I agree. I think it’s crazy. I fly fighters for 2 decades, been up to FL500 many times. USAF had very strict rules about flying above FL500, think pressure suits, etc. Your blood reportedly boils at 63000 feet ambient pressure, ie death. Concorde had something like 4 PACs and could hold a decent cabin altitude with one window blown out, which is why it could drift up above FL600. Unless there is some tremendously revolutionary technology on this aircraft, there is zero chance the FAA will certify it to FL600. This much silence tends to indicate they are running up against the laws of physics. I may be wrong, but time will tell.

Chris C.


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 Post subject: Re: Otto Aviation Celera 500L Flew This Week
PostPosted: 18 Jun 2022, 10:42 
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Above 30,000 makes no sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Otto Aviation Celera 500L Flew This Week
PostPosted: 18 Jun 2022, 18:42 
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Username Protected wrote:
FL500 in a single piston seems absolutely crazy. I am nervous at FL430 with twin jets to feed the bleed air.

I just do not see how thats going to get certified, and even if it does who would want to be up there with that little of power to rely on? You would almost have to have O2 mask on all the time. How long can you stay conscious at FL500 if you have engine failure?

Maybe this was already discussed here as it seems to be a huge hurtle.

Mike



I agree. I think it’s crazy. I fly fighters for 2 decades, been up to FL500 many times. USAF had very strict rules about flying above FL500, think pressure suits, etc. Your blood reportedly boils at 63000 feet ambient pressure, ie death. Concorde had something like 4 PACs and could hold a decent cabin altitude with one window blown out, which is why it could drift up above FL600. Unless there is some tremendously revolutionary technology on this aircraft, there is zero chance the FAA will certify it to FL600. This much silence tends to indicate they are running up against the laws of physics. I may be wrong, but time will tell.

Chris C.


That isn't their biggest problem. They are using the thin air to overcome the lack of power and gain efficiency, but that creates other problems. Here is what I think their biggest problems are:

1. Climb rate. Without excess power, it takes forever to get up to FL500. At 800fpm, which seems generous, it would take over an hour to get up there before you can see the performance they are advertising. At a more realistic 500fpm average, that is 1 hour and 40 minutes. For this time, if you are headed west into a strong headwind in the winter, it is possible you have now travelled backwards at the slow climb speeds.
2. The dangers of operating at those altitudes as has been mentioned.
3. Laminar flow. Laminar flow seems just about impossible to maintain on an airplane that will fly though ice, rain, accumulate bugs, etc.

I can possibly see this being useful on long haul overnight cargo flights, say from seattle to alaska or california to hawaii, where speed is less of a concern and the crew will tolerate wearing a mask. But even if that works, the demand is so small I can't see this venture ever turning a profit. And then there is the issue of flying a single engine piston airplane over water.

It's a fun science experiment.

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 Post subject: Re: Otto Aviation Celera 500L Flew This Week
PostPosted: 03 Jul 2022, 12:02 
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Has any data been published on the actual performance?

Regarding redundancy, they claim their engine can run as two separate banks of cylinders in any scenario. Not sure how comforting that would be to me at fl500, and I haven’t see any data about the real world reliability of the power plant.

Nonetheless, at least academically, this remains very interesting to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Otto Aviation Celera 500L Flew This Week
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2023, 16:29 
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German court sentenced Raikhlin, the founder of RED and the chief designer of Celera's diesel engine, to 5 years in prison for selling engines to Russians back in 2015.

Elon Musk, beware: these laws can be retroactive and downright impossible to comply.

William Otto: talk to Lycoming about a high altitude diesel.

https://www.flugrevue.de/flugzeugbau/re ... ahre-haft/


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 Post subject: Re: Otto Aviation Celera 500L Flew This Week
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2023, 16:57 
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Username Protected wrote:
German court sentenced Raikhlin, the founder of RED and the chief designer of Celera's diesel engine, to 5 years in prison for selling engines to Russians back in 2015.

Elon Musk, beware: these laws can be retroactive and downright impossible to comply.

William Otto: talk to Lycoming about a high altitude diesel.

https://www.flugrevue.de/flugzeugbau/re ... ahre-haft/


Not understanding the Elon reference.


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 Post subject: Re: Otto Aviation Celera 500L Flew This Week
PostPosted: 14 Sep 2023, 18:18 
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Elon Musk, beware: these laws can be retroactive and downright impossible to comply.


From that article, I see no indication that any laws were retroactive, the sanctions against exports of dual use technology to Russia were in place starting 2014 (stemming from the annexation of Crimea). The article says RED exported engines 2015-2021 including that the founder admitted in court they knew about the exports and pushed for them for business reasons, and simply assumed this was civil use only, which seems like a very flimsy fig leaf legally...


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