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06 Dec 2019, 19:00 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Rumor That All Mooney Employees Furloughed For A Week
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2019, 09:39 
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Location: Atlanta, GA
Aircraft: SR22, Baron 58
Username Protected wrote:
I think you need to ask your wife that question.

My wife would tell you that the chute DOES sell airplanes. She would also tell you that the styling of the airplane sells airplanes. She doesn't give a crap about useful load until I tell her that we can't take that item, or we can't take that extra person, or that we'll have to make an extra fuel stop to take those things. Then she cares. A little.

I miss my Cirrus a little bit. My wife misses it A LOT.

She sat in a Mooney Acclaim once, got out, walked out of earshot and said - No, simply No. I won't fly in that.


^ This

I'm back in a SR22 again, was flying a Baron for 3 years. My wife likes the wider cabin, which also feels bigger without a yoke in front her. The Baron had a throw-over yoke, so that one was nicer that way too. Unfortunately with the Baron panel set-up the GPS, radios, transponder and audio panel were in front of her, so I reached over for everything. She likes the two doors. She also likes the big MFD as she can see the map easier and see where we are and knows where to look to see when we should arrive.

My wife cares about the chute only for if I have a problem, but for that issue she's glad the chute is there. A woman she knows was flying somewhere with her husband (the pilot) and he had a medical issue (heart related), and he had serious vision issues from that. He managed to land it safely and got better on the ground, but left the plane there. I've told my wife about pinch hitter courses for years, and now I think she may actually take one. ;)

She only cares about useful load where it impacts what we can bring with us. We used to travel with the two younger girls in a SR22. That one had over 1,100 lbs of useful load. With four of us we needed to pack light, but we tend to do that even flying commercial. Now the kids are older, youngest is a senior in college, so most of the traveling is just the two of us. So, we are not limited in any meaningful way even with full fuel; ~240 lbs of remaining payload with us and full fuel.

I have told my wife about the chute, but need to go over it in detail with her again now that we're back in a SR22. Fortunately there are instructions on the cover over the chute activation handle.

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 Post subject: Re: Rumor That All Mooney Employees Furloughed For A Week
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2019, 10:20 
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Joined: 05/27/16
Posts: 449
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Location: KAPA - Denver
Aircraft: 1983 Bonanza A36TN
Username Protected wrote:
I don't get why people think that it's the Chute that sells Cirrus'. It's the useful load. An Acclaim is a one person plane with TKS and full tanks. Nobody is going to pay $800k for a four seat plane that they have to fly by themselves. If the Acclaim had a parachute and 50 pounds less useful load, they would sell fewer planes, not more.


It was the UL and cabin size that put me in an A36, not an SR-22 and I got my ticket in an SR-20...


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 Post subject: Re: Rumor That All Mooney Employees Furloughed For A Week
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2019, 11:46 
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Joined: 07/21/08
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Location: Decatur , TX (XA99)
Aircraft: 340, Frankenplane
Username Protected wrote:
what i don't get is why anyone cares about useful load with full tanks. It's been a very rare occasion that I've had full tanks. Maybe twice a year at most.

an airplane that lets you fill the seats and the tanks at the same time would be a poor design. it needs more seats or more tanks.

LOL. I can sure think of a lot of poor designs...
You should let Pilatus know about this.

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 Post subject: Re: Rumor That All Mooney Employees Furloughed For A Week
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2019, 14:02 
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Location: Stoke-on-Trent, UK
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Username Protected wrote:
Just a thought. How about the Chinese relocating Company in China and hiring bunch of little Chinese to build a US design aircraft. Would not surprise me. When the west accepted Chinese money, they made a pack with ... .....

why would they want to do that ? who would they be selling these planes to ? it's communist utopia, there is no GA. Even business jets are only used as a status symbol for hosting meetings while parked on the ground.


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 Post subject: Re: Rumor That All Mooney Employees Furloughed For A Week
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2019, 14:03 
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Location: Central Texas (KTPL)
Aircraft: '78 Bonanza A36
Ever see a Chinese knock-off golf club? Looks pretty and authentic, but sounds and performs totally different than the real thing. I'm not sure I'd trust my life to a Chinese air frame.


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 Post subject: Re: Rumor That All Mooney Employees Furloughed For A Week
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2019, 17:44 
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Joined: 03/12/18
Posts: 181
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Location: KSNA John Wayne, CA
Aircraft: Mooney M20S Eagle
Quick question for the folks complaining about full fuel useful load? how many of you guys have flown 7 hours in a plane? with the stock 102 gallon tanks, I can fly my eagle at 182 knots and 14 gallons per hour for over 7 hours. In an acclaim, i can go up to FL180 and fly it at 205 knots at 14.5 gallons lean of peak for just under 7 hours. you still have the option of putting 50 gallons instead of 100 gallons in the tanks. that's a spare 300 pounds. just because full fuel payload is 270lbs on an acclaim with TKS and AC doesn't mean the the tanks need to be topped off and the TKS tank needs to be full.


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 Post subject: Re: Rumor That All Mooney Employees Furloughed For A Week
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2019, 18:46 
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Location: Redmond, WA
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Username Protected wrote:
Quick question for the folks complaining about full fuel useful load? how many of you guys have flown 7 hours in a plane? with the stock 102 gallon tanks, I can fly my eagle at 182 knots and 14 gallons per hour for over 7 hours. In an acclaim, i can go up to FL180 and fly it at 205 knots at 14.5 gallons lean of peak for just under 7 hours. you still have the option of putting 50 gallons instead of 100 gallons in the tanks. that's a spare 300 pounds. just because full fuel payload is 270lbs on an acclaim with TKS and AC doesn't mean the the tanks need to be topped off and the TKS tank needs to be full.
I've done 6 hours in my 231. Don't do it often, but that's the entire reason I bought the 231 in the first place. I go slower but I burn even less fuel. But that's kind of the point. There's a lot of weight that could be pulled out of my 231. I could get another 40 pounds of useful just by swapping to an MT prop and replacing the steel O2 tank with composite. There's more to be found removing the vacuum system and going all electric, and pulling out all the old wiring for my ADF and such in a panel upgrade. My UL right now, without doing all that is 920 pounds, about the same as an Acclaim with TKS, I only burn 10 GPH at 65% cruise, and I have 72 gallon tanks. If you're looking for payload at range my 231 is uncomfortably close to an Acclaim, albeit slower.

Ten times the money, four decades newer, and much higher gross weight gets you more speed at higher fuel burn and that's it. New market is a totally different market than used and new buyers obviously don't cross shop used, otherwise Cirrus wouldn't be selling new planes either, but it would be really depressing to go buy a brand new Acclaim Ultra and end up flying 231 speeds and fuel burns just to have enough range to bring a friend and a couple overnight bags.

Mooney isn't the only one. A previous poster mentioned they have an A36. Great plane. The G36 doesn't sell, though. It's a six seat plane that has essentially zero fuel payload left if you actually put six people in it. UL is barely better than an Ovation. Cirrus sells on useful load. Certainly not styling (I had my girlfriend sit in one just to check it out and she hated it. Too tall (and she's 5'7", I'm 6'2"), too bulky, too ugly. The Mooney is low and sleek, looks fast sitting still. It's like comparing a Prius to a Corvette.)


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 Post subject: Re: Rumor That All Mooney Employees Furloughed For A Week
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2019, 18:54 
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Company: W. John Gadd, Esq.
Location: Florida
Aircraft: C55 Baron
Username Protected wrote:
I don't get why people think that it's the Chute that sells Cirrus'. It's the useful load. An Acclaim is a one person plane with TKS and full tanks. Nobody is going to pay $800k for a four seat plane that they have to fly by themselves. If the Acclaim had a parachute and 50 pounds less useful load, they would sell fewer planes, not more.


I think you need to ask your wife that question.

My wife would tell you that the chute DOES sell airplanes. She would also tell you that the styling of the airplane sells airplanes. She doesn't give a crap about useful load until I tell her that we can't take that item, or we can't take that extra person, or that we'll have to make an extra fuel stop to take those things. Then she cares. A little.

I miss my Cirrus a little bit. My wife misses it A LOT.

She sat in a Mooney Acclaim once, got out, walked out of earshot and said - No, simply No. I won't fly in that.



I'd take the C55 for fun factor, useful load, and acquisition cost.

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 Post subject: Re: Rumor That All Mooney Employees Furloughed For A Week
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2019, 19:08 
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Joined: 06/09/09
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Aircraft: C182P, Merlin IIIC
Username Protected wrote:
Quick question for the folks complaining about full fuel useful load? how many of you guys have flown 7 hours in a plane? with the stock 102 gallon tanks, I can fly my eagle at 182 knots and 14 gallons per hour for over 7 hours. In an acclaim, i can go up to FL180 and fly it at 205 knots at 14.5 gallons lean of peak for just under 7 hours. you still have the option of putting 50 gallons instead of 100 gallons in the tanks. that's a spare 300 pounds. just because full fuel payload is 270lbs on an acclaim with TKS and AC doesn't mean the the tanks need to be topped off and the TKS tank needs to be full.


I’ve done 7+ hours many times.


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 Post subject: Re: Rumor That All Mooney Employees Furloughed For A Week
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2019, 19:37 
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Joined: 03/12/18
Posts: 181
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Location: KSNA John Wayne, CA
Aircraft: Mooney M20S Eagle
Username Protected wrote:
Quick question for the folks complaining about full fuel useful load? how many of you guys have flown 7 hours in a plane? with the stock 102 gallon tanks, I can fly my eagle at 182 knots and 14 gallons per hour for over 7 hours. In an acclaim, i can go up to FL180 and fly it at 205 knots at 14.5 gallons lean of peak for just under 7 hours. you still have the option of putting 50 gallons instead of 100 gallons in the tanks. that's a spare 300 pounds. just because full fuel payload is 270lbs on an acclaim with TKS and AC doesn't mean the the tanks need to be topped off and the TKS tank needs to be full.


I’ve done 7+ hours many times.

I was implying that most people don't make their family fly direct 7 hours. 7 hours solo isn't that big of a deal, and the useful load allows for that.

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 Post subject: Re: Rumor That All Mooney Employees Furloughed For A Week
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2019, 19:47 
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J Cu,
The facts and choices don’t seem to matter even to a Mooney owner. I prefer a long body Mooney to fly vs a Cirrus. It’s UL is not that much better when comparing apples and apples with the same options. The M is faster on the same fuel. You can’t mentioning cost and the new Cirrus is more $ than Mooney. BWTHDIK

Fly safe CET

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 Post subject: Re: Rumor That All Mooney Employees Furloughed For A Week
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2019, 22:04 
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Username Protected wrote:
Quick question for the folks complaining about full fuel useful load? how many of you guys have flown 7 hours in a plane?
Longest flight I ever took was solo in a Mooney Eagle. Absolutely fantastic airplane. If you weren't "careful" you could overfill it for extra range. :tape:


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 Post subject: Re: Rumor That All Mooney Employees Furloughed For A Week
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2019, 22:26 
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Location: Austin, TX area
Aircraft: F33A Bonanza
In all fairness, my '72 F33A has more useful load than a new G36.

To me, Mooney is a niche airplane. Some people love them, I just don't care for the seating and layout and small windows. I would probably feel differently if I was 2" shorter and 40 lbs lighter. And yes, I know that a tall man can fit, if he doesn't mind having his feet straight out in front in a tunnel like an Indy car for 4 hours. But I can see why some people love them.

BTW, I never move the seat in my Bo. I can get in/out perfectly fine with it right where it's been since the last annual, and so can my passengers, and that's with the dual yoke.


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 Post subject: Re: Rumor That All Mooney Employees Furloughed For A Week
PostPosted: 15 Nov 2019, 22:39 
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Location: Decatur , TX (XA99)
Aircraft: 340, Frankenplane
I was in Kerrville today and quizzed the FBO staff regarding local knowledge of the shutdown. They said a group of Mooney owners are trying to buy the plant and restart production, but they didn't have much hope that it would happen.
The general consensus was Mooney is probably done for good.

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 Post subject: Re: Rumor That All Mooney Employees Furloughed For A Week
PostPosted: 16 Nov 2019, 06:53 
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Username Protected wrote:
Ever see a Chinese knock-off golf club? Looks pretty and authentic, but sounds and performs totally different than the real thing. I'm not sure I'd trust my life to a Chinese air frame.

Never, ever, ever... Most people just don’t get it and never will. It is the kiss of death...


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