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06 Dec 2019, 19:07 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2019, 12:01 
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
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Username Protected wrote:
Unfortunately, if you want to see what the diesel 50 will perform like all you have to do is look at the diesel 40. It's heavy and a dog. To bad. The Avgas Diamonds were real performers. Not so for the diesels. That being said, Diamond does have a market for their planes. It's just not real big on performance.

The DA62 is fast. And it's diesel.


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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2019, 12:47 
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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2019, 12:57 
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Location: Oklahoma City, OK (KPWA)
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Is it really 300hp at 9.2gph?
https://www.diamondaircraft.com/en/about-diamond/newsroom/news/article/diamond-aircraft-da50-program-changes-and-new-engine/


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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2019, 13:04 
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Quote:
The CD-300, certified in December 2017, is the third platform in Continental's successful Jet-A fueled piston engine lineup. The engine produces 300 hp, at a fuel sipping 9.2 US Gallons per hour, and a quiet 2,300 RPM. The engine was specifically designed to power high performance, luxury piston powered aircraft.


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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2019, 13:34 
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Username Protected wrote:

Probably at 65% cruise.

"Performance data will be provided later this year."


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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2019, 13:50 
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Someone needs to slap their marketing folks for letting this tidbit of info slip into their materials. The engine is 100% not able to make 300 hp on 9.2 gph. That's a BSFC of ~.20. Not possible. 9.2 gph is probably a cruise setting.

The allure of diesels is running at high/max power settings without needing the "full mixture" setting we're used to in legacy piston mills. The EPS engine guys have a good graphic showing this: https://eps.aero/wp-content/uploads/201 ... s-hour.jpg

Whether you agree or not to running engines hard, at least diesels do it LOP which is the nicer way to run the engines at high power settings.

Don't get your hopes up for 9.2gph at 300 hp. My guess is that engine at max 300 hp is ~.35 BSFC (I'm using the EPS graphic above).

Napkin math: 300 hp*.35 = 105 lbs/hr

105 lbs/hr of jet A = ~15.5 gph


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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2019, 14:43 
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Joined: 01/05/11
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Aircraft: 1969 Aerostar 600
DA 62: ISA Standard, Gross Weight 5,071 lbs.

8,000' msl :
95% 19.3 gph 182 kts.
75% 14.8 gph 165 kts.
65% 11.8 gph 149 kts.

10,000' msl :
95% 19.3 gph 185 kts.
75% 14.8 gph 168 kts.
65% 11.8 gph 152 kts.

12,000' msl :
95% 19.3 gph 189 kts.
75% 14.8 gph 171 kts.
65% 11.8 gph 154 kts.

14,000' msl :
95% 18.5 gph 190 kts.
75% 14.8 gph 174 kts.
65% 11.8 gph 157 kts.

16,000' msl :
95% 18.0 gph 189 kts.
75% 14.8 gph 177 kts.
65% 11.8 gph 160 kts.


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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2019, 15:25 
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Great figures in my mind, considering how much weight it's moving.

Wish the engines had a little more sauce. 200 or 210 hp for better runway performance.


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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2019, 16:08 
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Location: Oklahoma City, OK (KPWA)
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Username Protected wrote:
Someone needs to slap their marketing folks for letting this tidbit of info slip into their materials. The engine is 100% not able to make 300 hp on 9.2 gph. That's a BSFC of ~.20. Not possible. 9.2 gph is probably a cruise setting.

Maybe it's the same guy who is doing the Raptor.


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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2019, 17:53 
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Joined: 05/17/10
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Location: canuck
Aircraft: x23mouse
no doubt polars


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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2019, 18:00 
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Aircraft: 1969 Aerostar 600
Username Protected wrote:
Great figures in my mind, considering how much weight it's moving.

Wish the engines had a little more sauce. 200 or 210 hp for better runway performance.

More sauce means more fuel burn. There is no getting away from that no matter what your engine is.


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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2019, 18:07 
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& more heat


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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2019, 22:44 
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Location: $ilicon Vall€y
Aircraft: Columbia 400
Username Protected wrote:
1200 hours is where all the new engine designs start, and as time is built on the fleet, the TBO/TBR numbers have gone up to approximately the same as conventional gas engines’s numbers. Austro is now 1800 hours TBO, and CMI CD135 is up to 2100. In the case of the Austro, the increase was retroactive, and in the case of the CMI, there was a serial number cut with many design and parts changes.

The 12 year life limit exists also for most gas engines, though opinions on how to interpret the language, which chapter of the maintenance manual it’s published in, and under what authority the aircraft is operated.


TCO compares quite favorably with a gas engine. I believe we have the same TSIO550 G on our planes, and the invoice for a factory reman is something like $85,000. I’m not looking forward to that. I ran the numbers some time ago on a 1500 TBO austro and TVD-equipped CD135, and for 2 engines on a DA42, the scheduled mx and overhaul reserve came to something like $46 and $87 per hour. Both engines. Obviously it’s a different application than our go-fast singles, but throw in a mid-life top and 50 hour oil changes, and you’re right there with the hourly cost for 2 austro engines.

Diamond did fly the DA50 with an austro 170 hp engine. They called it the DA50 magnum, but I was thinking at the time that “rimfire” might be closer to the mark. Performance on this single should be quite a bit better. The DA62 performs nicely on 20% more power, and it has more drag and almost certainly more weight.

One challenge that Diamond and its dealers need to overcome is the density of service centers. Pretty much anyone can work on my TSIO550. The continental and austro diesels, on the other hand, require special equipment and training. This problem goes away with a concerted effort by DAI and dealers and with more in service.
-dan


The 1200 hours doesn't surprise me being a new engine. But there's no guarantee that it is going to get extended. It's also a TBR at this time, so no "overhaul", it's replace.

While those things will likely change over the life of an engine program, it could take years.

All that uncertainty makes it hard-to-sell.

The thing I was wondering though, is if the TBR is an airworthiness limitation that's a whole different matter than a recommended TBO. Our TSIO550's have a recommended TBO, which means we can ignore it. But, an airworthiness limitation would be mandatory, even for pt91.


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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 09 Nov 2019, 02:22 
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Joined: 12/22/07
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Company: Chem Trails of MI
Location: KPTK (SE Michigan)
Aircraft: C205
Does The 1200 hour TBO include the gear reduction unit?

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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 09 Nov 2019, 03:48 
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Joined: 12/18/12
Posts: 387
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Location: Europe
Aircraft: Lancair Columbia 300
NIL: Recip diesels have 2 BIG handicaps: Weight & Heat, which translates to cooling drag.

That's why this new Diamond has such an ugly cowl - it needs LOT'S of cooling air , which generates LOT'S of cooling drag.

Further, these are very complex engines, compared to our Conti/Lycos: Very High pressure injection pumps, intercooled turbos, geared reduction boxes, liquid cooling system pumps, hoses, radiators & vernatherms, etc., etc.

Despite living in Europe with high priced and increasingly scarce AvGas, I'm not betting on diesels.

Millions went into the French SMA Diesel and that is all but dead.

I'm betting on Re-generative gas turbo-props, like this initiative : https://www.turbotech-aero.com/solutions/

- Extremely simple & reliable turbine technology
- Light weight
- Compact (low cowling/cooling drag)
- Burns just about anything: JetA1, Bio-fuel, Un-leaded mo-gas, & even AvGas (yuck !)

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