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13 Dec 2019, 13:32 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Greenwich AeroGroup



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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2019, 20:03 
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Location: Central Texas (KTPL)
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I've heard a lot of negative stuff about Diamond in the last year or two. It's cool on paper, but so are a lot of planes. The Diamond Jet... remember that? Fingers crossed.

I think a 5-place single reaches people Cirrus can't reach for the sub-$1M price point.


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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2019, 20:04 
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
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I like how it looks


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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2019, 20:45 
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Username Protected wrote:
I like how it looks

You kind of have to.


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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2019, 20:56 
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Continental has been sitting on these diesels for years. Seems like no motivation throughout the whole company. Bunch of people picking up a check. BWTHDIK

hard sell
Quote:
Textron’s Cessna Aircraft division in June 2017 announced a jet-A version of the 172 powered by a Continental CD-155 jet-A engine installed in-house, Textron quietly bowed out of that market in May 2018 to focus resources on more important projects, as it also did for a diesel 182 that never made a dent in the market.

https://www.flyingmag.com/inside-aviati ... evolution/

cheap gas here
https://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft/dies ... evolution/

read somewhere ~ of 80 airports in Greece, 2 offer 100LL
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all ... ng-diesels


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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2019, 21:47 
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Wouldn’t they need a bit stronger of an engine in order to get 5 FAA standard bodies, or 4 and a child, as well as a reasonable amount of fuel in the air?
My thoughts are about 250 horses for a comfortable takeoff roll and climb.


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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2019, 22:29 
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Location: Seneca, SC (CEU)
Aircraft: 1979 Bonanza A36
I think it looks pretty cool. If you squint your eyes it kind of looks like a baby Super Tucano with a T-tail.

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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2019, 22:30 
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Two things that would really open up the envelope for piston single designs:

*) 300hp Diesels running Jet-A at a similar acquisition cost / overhaul cost to existing gas engines. Do today’s Cirrus / Bonanza missions on half the fuel cost.
*) 400-450hp recip engines of either gas or diesel, allowing Pilots to have the optional equipment they want in today’s 300hp singles (chute, A/C, deice, turbo, oxy, etc) with some useful load and room for modern size humans.


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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2019, 09:00 
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Wing span? Looks like a very high aspect ratio wing. I am wondering what hangar door width is required?

TBO of the engine? Gearbox? Costs to overhaul?

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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2019, 09:54 
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I'll be watching this one closely!

You're gonna fall asleep watching this one.


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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2019, 10:05 
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Then there's the TBR issue. 1200hrs between *replacement* of the CD300. Not overhaul, replacement.

Will it be an airworthiness limitation? 1200hrs/12yrs and you buy a new one, no matter what?


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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2019, 10:22 
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That cabin "hump" reminds me of the Ryan Navion or Disney's Dusty Crophopper. Not exactly gorgeous.

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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2019, 10:37 
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Yeah the JetA thing is a big deal. I wonder why Cirrus hasn't gotten one going?


No reliable supply of reliable engines.

The whole musical chairs in the business ownership, who's making what and so on.

Then there's the TBR issue. 1200hrs between *replacement* of the CD300. Not overhaul, replacement.

Will it be an airworthiness limitation? 1200hrs/12yrs and you buy a new one, no matter what?

1200 hours is where all the new engine designs start, and as time is built on the fleet, the TBO/TBR numbers have gone up to approximately the same as conventional gas engines’s numbers. Austro is now 1800 hours TBO, and CMI CD135 is up to 2100. In the case of the Austro, the increase was retroactive, and in the case of the CMI, there was a serial number cut with many design and parts changes.

The 12 year life limit exists also for most gas engines, though opinions on how to interpret the language, which chapter of the maintenance manual it’s published in, and under what authority the aircraft is operated.


TCO compares quite favorably with a gas engine. I believe we have the same TSIO550 G on our planes, and the invoice for a factory reman is something like $85,000. I’m not looking forward to that. I ran the numbers some time ago on a 1500 TBO austro and TVD-equipped CD135, and for 2 engines on a DA42, the scheduled mx and overhaul reserve came to something like $46 and $87 per hour. Both engines. Obviously it’s a different application than our go-fast singles, but throw in a mid-life top and 50 hour oil changes, and you’re right there with the hourly cost for 2 austro engines.

Diamond did fly the DA50 with an austro 170 hp engine. They called it the DA50 magnum, but I was thinking at the time that “rimfire” might be closer to the mark. Performance on this single should be quite a bit better. The DA62 performs nicely on 20% more power, and it has more drag and almost certainly more weight.

One challenge that Diamond and its dealers need to overcome is the density of service centers. Pretty much anyone can work on my TSIO550. The continental and austro diesels, on the other hand, require special equipment and training. This problem goes away with a concerted effort by DAI and dealers and with more in service.
-dan

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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2019, 11:11 
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Location: KFIN Flagler, FL
Aircraft: 1991 Bonanza A36
175 horsepower doesn't do it for me.

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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2019, 11:53 
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Unfortunately, if you want to see what the diesel 50 will perform like all you have to do is look at the diesel 40. It's heavy and a dog. To bad. The Avgas Diamonds were real performers. Not so for the diesels. That being said, Diamond does have a market for their planes. It's just not real big on performance.


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 Post subject: Re: interesting Diamond new retract diesel single
PostPosted: 08 Nov 2019, 12:00 
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Location: NYC
Aircraft: 421C, T303, B55, 172
I sat in the prototype years ago and it was very comfortable. Only thing I didn't like was the stick instead of a yoke.


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