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28 Mar 2024, 12:29 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: WTB: MU2
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2020, 21:49 
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Joined: 03/22/18
Posts: 3808
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Location: Nashville, TN
Aircraft: Lazarus - a B60 Duke
One quote came in.

Me: 15,000 hours total time, multiple type ratings, yearly Boeing school flying about 600-700 hours a year, would get yearly required MU-2 school, about 500 hours single pilot turboprop PIC.

Airplane: $175k hull value, flying 50-60 hours a year, no partners, hangared, etc.

Insurance. 3% of hull value plus $1,300 for Liability & medical = $6,550 per year.

Almost double the Duke with not that big a hull price difference, same number of seats, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: WTB: MU2
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2020, 21:56 
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Username Protected wrote:
One quote came in.

Me: 15,000 hours total time, multiple type ratings, yearly Boeing school flying about 600-700 hours a year, would get yearly required MU-2 school, about 500 hours single pilot turboprop PIC.

Airplane: $175k hull value, flying 50-60 hours a year, no partners, hangared, etc.

Insurance. 3% of hull value plus $1,300 for Liability & medical = $6,550 per year.

Almost double the Duke with not that big a hull price difference, same number of seats, etc.


How much of your total turbine time is PIC? How old is your PIC turbine time?

Just getting a feel as a build a group of jet pilots.


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 Post subject: Re: WTB: MU2
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2020, 22:18 
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Joined: 06/09/09
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Aircraft: C182P, Merlin IIIC
That’s cheap insurance, don’t think significantly better quotes will come in. They know that there is a difference between the 121 & 91 environment even with the same guy.


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 Post subject: Re: WTB: MU2
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2020, 22:28 
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Joined: 03/22/18
Posts: 3808
Post Likes: +2104
Location: Nashville, TN
Aircraft: Lazarus - a B60 Duke
Username Protected wrote:
One quote came in.

Me: 15,000 hours total time, multiple type ratings, yearly Boeing school flying about 600-700 hours a year, would get yearly required MU-2 school, about 500 hours single pilot turboprop PIC.

Airplane: $175k hull value, flying 50-60 hours a year, no partners, hangared, etc.

Insurance. 3% of hull value plus $1,300 for Liability & medical = $6,550 per year.

Almost double the Duke with not that big a hull price difference, same number of seats, etc.


How much of your total turbine time is PIC? How old is your PIC turbine time?

Just getting a feel as a build a group of jet pilots.

I have no idea what my turbine PIC time is. I stopped logging flight time a decade ago.

Turboprop PIC time is 500 hours, give or take, but 20 years ago.

Turbine PIC is probably about 7,000 hours give or take. I really don't recall, I have about 3,000 PIC Lear, 100 PIC Falcon, 100 PIC 727, and about 3,500 PIC CRJ in addition to the turboprop single pilot PIC, best guess.

Quote:

That’s cheap insurance, don’t think significantly better quotes will come in. They know that there is a difference between the 121 & 91 environment even with the same guy.

I was just comparing it to the 1.5-2.0% of insured hull value mentioned earlier, which is about what the Duke is running. 1.75% hull value plus $1,500 for Liability is what Duke insurance costs me, and no school, just an IPC.

In essence the MU-2 for insurance and school adds about $6,000 a year over the Duke, give or take, or about 120 more an hour based on my usage.

As far as 121 vs 91, 91 is as regimented as you make it. I would submit a 121 guy is going to be more regimented in everything, including Part 91 flying, than just a Part 91 guy alone, not to mention flying every single week 10-12 segments a week keeps your skillset a little more active, but that's just my opinion.

It's made my Duke insurance less than almost anyone else I've heard of. Just didn't work that way for the MU-2 quote, higher than some have mentioned.

Just presented as a FWIW.

Last edited on 06 Jan 2020, 22:36, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: WTB: MU2
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2020, 22:30 
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Joined: 04/09/16
Posts: 541
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Location: Utah
Aircraft: MU-2B
9.5k / 400k hull with 1500TT and 500ME and no turbine was my quote.


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 Post subject: Re: WTB: MU2
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2020, 22:34 
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Location: Nashville, TN
Aircraft: Lazarus - a B60 Duke
Username Protected wrote:
9.5k / 400k hull with 1500TT and 500ME and no turbine was my quote.

That's about 2% hull value plus $1,500 as others have mentioned.

Lower than my quote when adjusted for hull value.


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 Post subject: Re: WTB: MU2
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2020, 22:39 
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Joined: 11/22/08
Posts: 2913
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Company: USAF Propulsion Laboratory
Location: Dayton, OH
Aircraft: PA24, AEST 680, 421
Username Protected wrote:
One quote came in.

Me: 15,000 hours total time, multiple type ratings, yearly Boeing school flying about 600-700 hours a year, would get yearly required MU-2 school, about 500 hours single pilot turboprop PIC.

Airplane: $175k hull value, flying 50-60 hours a year, no partners, hangared, etc.

Insurance. 3% of hull value plus $1,300 for Liability & medical = $6,550 per year.

Almost double the Duke with not that big a hull price difference, same number of seats, etc.

Sure seems high for your experience level. Insurance just seems like a black art to me.


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 Post subject: Re: WTB: MU2
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2020, 22:54 
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Joined: 01/21/09
Posts: 693
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Location: KBJC
Aircraft: MU-2B-60
Username Protected wrote:

Almost double the Duke with not that big a hull price difference, same number of seats, etc.


It might be bad luck on your timing. I keep hearing, and it has been discussed here, that rates are going up and sometimes quite a bit. Was the quote to add it to your existing policy or was it a new policy? I have heard 3rd hand that in the current environment new policies can be pricier than adding aircraft to an existing policy. I can't tell you why or give an example, just was told that by a friend.


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 Post subject: Re: WTB: MU2
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2020, 22:55 
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Joined: 04/09/16
Posts: 541
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Location: Utah
Aircraft: MU-2B
Username Protected wrote:
Actually our provider Chuck Walton in TN is not even an A&P, just an A. He’s been around for a minute...

When I had my come-to-Jesus at the FSDO they poured over our Mx records and only commented that I had failed to write the letter selecting out Mx Program per Jon’s note of 91.409f. Letter added, problem solved.

T

What was this letter?


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 Post subject: Re: WTB: MU2
PostPosted: 06 Jan 2020, 23:27 
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Joined: 03/22/18
Posts: 3808
Post Likes: +2104
Location: Nashville, TN
Aircraft: Lazarus - a B60 Duke
Username Protected wrote:

Almost double the Duke with not that big a hull price difference, same number of seats, etc.


It might be bad luck on your timing. I keep hearing, and it has been discussed here, that rates are going up and sometimes quite a bit. Was the quote to add it to your existing policy or was it a new policy? I have heard 3rd hand that in the current environment new policies can be pricier than adding aircraft to an existing policy. I can't tell you why or give an example, just was told that by a friend.

The Duke policy was new, but it was from the same company that was already insuring the Baron and the Bonanza before that.

The MU-2 is a completely new policy quote as well. Just weighing options. I'd love an MU-2 but already pushing the envelope slightly with the Duke. Have a bit of work to do before I could do it anyway. Best money selling Laz, if I were to go that route, means the outstanding squawk list needs to be fixed, and that's about 17 items, mostly small, but some larger.

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 Post subject: Re: WTB: MU2
PostPosted: 07 Jan 2020, 01:02 
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Joined: 11/08/12
Posts: 6230
Post Likes: +3729
Location: San Carlos, CA - KHWD
Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
Username Protected wrote:
One quote came in.

Me: 15,000 hours total time, multiple type ratings, yearly Boeing school flying about 600-700 hours a year, would get yearly required MU-2 school, about 500 hours single pilot turboprop PIC.

Airplane: $175k hull value, flying 50-60 hours a year, no partners, hangared, etc.

Insurance. 3% of hull value plus $1,300 for Liability & medical = $6,550 per year.

Almost double the Duke with not that big a hull price difference, same number of seats, etc.

That's not that bad. First year in a given type they usually have a higher hull rate. While this insurance environment is a wildcard, often the 2nd and subsequent years it'll come down some.

_________________
-Jon C.


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 Post subject: Re: WTB: MU2
PostPosted: 07 Jan 2020, 04:01 
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Joined: 02/09/09
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Location: Owosso, MI (KRNP)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
I was admittedly on the edge of my seat thinking about upgrading from the Aerostar to a lower end MU-2 until I read Ricks post on insurance rates. That rate is almost double my slightly higher insured Aerostar and a customers 414 that I'm the only one on the insurance. I have about the same qualifications at Rick give or take a few types...


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 Post subject: Re: WTB: MU2
PostPosted: 12 Jan 2020, 10:29 
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Joined: 04/09/16
Posts: 541
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Location: Utah
Aircraft: MU-2B
Username Protected wrote:
I was admittedly on the edge of my seat thinking about upgrading from the Aerostar to a lower end MU-2 until I read Ricks post on insurance rates. That rate is almost double my slightly higher insured Aerostar and a customers 414 that I'm the only one on the insurance. I have about the same qualifications at Rick give or take a few types...

1500 TT no Turbine, 9.5k, added time my existing policy I think I’m paying 8.5k for the first 9 months then I get to renew with 100hr M&M and turbine experience. I have owned both a mu2 and a duke. It’s not even a comparison in terms of the two aircraft. The mu2 is much more stable, no tail wag, flys like an airliner. The duke gets beat around in the bumps just like the Cessna 340.

I departed Reno this week and every airliner, and GA bird was bitching to ATC of continuous moderate, we got nothing more then light chop. That’s been my experience in the airplane so far everywhere we have flown the mu2. Flying the Duke IMC in the mountains was a much less pleasant experience. I suspect if you live in the flat lands it’s much less of an issue.


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