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07 Dec 2019, 03:32 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Greenwich AeroGroup



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 Post subject: Re: SETP 340
PostPosted: 02 Nov 2019, 20:56 
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Joined: 01/24/17
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Aircraft: Piper PA32R300 Lance
No data that I could find on FlightAware. Great concept, but without data on performance, hard to be too excited about something unique and experimental at $400K.


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 Post subject: Re: SETP 340
PostPosted: 02 Nov 2019, 22:02 
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Very similar to an Aerostar that had its engines removed, and replaced with a Garrett TPE331 up front. It was an R&D plane that never made it to certification.


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 Post subject: Re: SETP 340
PostPosted: 06 Nov 2019, 00:37 
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Joined: 02/09/09
Posts: 2739
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Location: Owosso, MI (KRNP)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
If it was done via STC and left a certified airframe and done on a 414A/421C, it would be one heck of an airplane!


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 Post subject: Re: SETP 340
PostPosted: 06 Nov 2019, 14:57 
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Joined: 11/15/17
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Company: Cessna (retired)
Looks too simple. How about this one:


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.


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 Post subject: Re: SETP 340
PostPosted: 06 Nov 2019, 15:26 
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Location: In between the opioid and marijuana epidemics
Aircraft: 182, A36TC
If Cessna had more foresight than a monkey? This would have been a great concept.

Performance is not difficult to figure. Slightly more ho with turbine than the 620hp stock piston. One less prop to get outta’ da way.

Figure 10-20 knots faster than the piston.

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Ryan Holt CFI

"Paranoia and PTSD are requirements not diseases"


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 Post subject: Re: SETP 340
PostPosted: 06 Nov 2019, 17:26 
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Joined: 10/06/16
Posts: 53
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Location: Tucson, AZ
Aircraft: Turbo Centurion
Username Protected wrote:
...hard to be too excited about something unique and experimental at $400K...


Well, it's more exciting than a SETP Baron conversion priced 50% higher ($600k)

To me, the Experimental - Amateur Built airworthiness certificate is a very attractive feature of these conversions; it can't ever fly for hire, sure, but maintenance and avionics choices get much better. Honestly if they'd let me convert my 54-year-old airplane certificated under CAR-3 rules to A-EB category, I'd do it immediately.


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 Post subject: Re: SETP 340
PostPosted: 06 Nov 2019, 17:36 
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Joined: 03/23/08
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Company: AirPower Insurance
Location: Phoenix, AZ (KDVT)
Aircraft: GC1B, Mu2, LrJet
I had a customer try and buy that recently.

The underwriters replies to the RFQ were pretty amusing.

Tough sell right there.
But looks cool.

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 Post subject: Re: SETP 340
PostPosted: 06 Nov 2019, 18:35 
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Location: MYF, San Diego, CA
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Honestly if they'd let me convert my 54-year-old airplane certificated under CAR-3 rules to A-EB category, I'd do it immediately.


I'd seriously think about that. Changing the designation after certification doesn't remove safety. It is mostly a bureaucratic exercise that could save time and expense.

The airplane advertised is very much an experimental. Removal of the engines required the wings be "beefed up." They've also been extended. I'd prefer such modifications of a high performance airplane to be conceived and performed by professionals under supervision of other professionals without a financial interest.


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 Post subject: Re: SETP 340
PostPosted: 06 Nov 2019, 18:41 
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Location: Central TX
Aircraft: 2022 TF60
Username Protected wrote:
I had a customer try and buy that recently.

The underwriters replies to the RFQ were pretty amusing.

Tough sell right there.
But looks cool.


I think TJ nailed this. Insurance is hard enough to get on "garden variety" Experimentals---this is in a whole other league!


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 Post subject: Re: SETP 340
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2019, 09:38 
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Location: KFCI
Aircraft: AA5B Tiger
So any reason why this didn't take off as a "thing" back then? The article made it sound like it generated quite a bit of interest and would have been competitive against other airframes at the time. Is it because it was E-AB vs. certified?


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 Post subject: Re: SETP 340
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2019, 12:45 
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Joined: 02/09/09
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Location: Owosso, MI (KRNP)
Aircraft: 1969 Bonanza V35A
Username Protected wrote:
If Cessna had more foresight than a monkey? This would have been a great concept.


If Cessna would have been smart, they would have pulled the drawing and tooling out for the 441 and made it a big single... I could have been a heck of a competitor in the SETP market and 2/3 of the design work was already done...


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 Post subject: Re: SETP 340
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2019, 13:05 
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Joined: 07/21/08
Posts: 4403
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Location: Decatur , TX (XA99)
Aircraft: 340, Frankenplane
Username Protected wrote:
If Cessna had more foresight than a monkey? This would have been a great concept.


If Cessna would have been smart, they would have pulled the drawing and tooling out for the 441 and made it a big single... I could have been a heck of a competitor in the SETP market and 2/3 of the design work was already done...

exactly. They picked the wrong airframe for this project. Even the 421 would have worked. That would have left plenty of room in the nose for baggage, as well as in the rear of the cabin.
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 Post subject: Re: SETP 340
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2019, 13:18 
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Joined: 11/19/15
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Company: Centurion LV
Location: Draper UT KPVU-KSMO
Aircraft: N100L 421C
Big companies have a really hard time keeping up with Market changes. Cessna got killed in the transition from Twin pistons to Single Turbo Props. They could have easily made the transition.

Most large companies that own a market can't take the risk of losing the current sales for the next thing. So they keep with the old. Then some other company takes the next step and takes off.

I remember for Biz school seeing a chart of data storage platforms and who owned the market share of each tech. Not one company maintained the market share as it went from one tech to another. In fact they could not even catch up on the next change. These were all big companies.

Too bad to see a legacy company like Cessna just sit back and get punched. They are lost and letting all these other companies take the markets they once owned.

Mike

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 Post subject: Re: SETP 340
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2019, 19:12 
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Joined: 07/11/15
Posts: 21
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Aircraft: 58P Harpoon
Username Protected wrote:
...hard to be too excited about something unique and experimental at $400K...


Well, it's more exciting than a SETP Baron conversion priced 50% higher ($600k)

To me, the Experimental - Amateur Built airworthiness certificate is a very attractive feature of these conversions; it can't ever fly for hire, sure, but maintenance and avionics choices get much better. Honestly if they'd let me convert my 54-year-old airplane certificated under CAR-3 rules to A-EB category, I'd do it immediately.



Not gonna lie, that is an awesome machine at what seems to be a fair price! But, since we are comparing my plane (The overpriced 58P!) lets look at it! Mine is currently flying 100 hours a year, very well maintained, (just got back from a SW US tour an hour ago). Insurance is approved and easy to get with similar airframes out there($8k a year for $600k and $1m CSL). Not to mention there is $100k worth of avionics upgrades that this 340 needs.

But, I love it! For $400k it's not bad, if it is truly E-AB. When they did the 58's there was all kinds of weird stuff to get it through, including adding windows to the floor! The aerostar was E-Exhibition which is fairly restrictive. But the one thing I wish my plane had was more room, and a small aisle! But, the 340 is a heavier plane with the same engine. Not sure how that would affect performance. I think a 421 with a 331-10 would be almost the perfect airplane! If I didn't already have a small version of this, I would be seriously looking at this for a new project!

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 Post subject: Re: SETP 340
PostPosted: 09 Nov 2019, 12:37 
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Joined: 12/13/13
Posts: 11
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Location: Tulsa, OK
Username Protected wrote:
Looks too simple. How about this one:


I heard the rumors of "Co-Ax the Barbarian" when I worked at Cessna, finally get to see a pic of it. Thanks Bill! Are those twin Allison 250's in the nose driving the coaxial prop shafts?


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