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 Post subject: Cirrus fake gear switch
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2019, 13:49 
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Joined: 05/19/11
Posts: 59
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Aircraft: Baron 58
The fake gear switch on the new Cirrus trainer is not near as realistic or elegant as the ones on the Sundowner.


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus fake gear switch
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2019, 16:03 
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Joined: 03/26/16
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Location: North East PA
Aircraft: V35, AG5B, and G550
I've seen one on a super mouse that was wired with lights and a relay to the throttle at idle. Granted that was a custom install, but extremely realistic. And Cirrus thinks they are breaking new ground here.

-E

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-Eric Paul Eviston
CFI-I/MEI/AGI
ABS BPPP Academy Grad
G550 Contract Captain
'66 V35 Bo and '92 AG5B


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus fake gear switch
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2019, 19:36 
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Joined: 03/12/18
Posts: 336
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Company: N/A
Location: Helena, Montana
Aircraft: 35-33 Debonair CD125
There was once a strange looking machine called the Champion Lancer. Basically a Citabria with a nosewheel and two Continental 0-200's with fixed pitch prop's on the wings. The gear was firmly welded, but it was sold as the cheapest multi trainer around and it had a gear lever to play with.
Definitely a case of an engine failure would have you guided to the accident by the remaining engine.
A friend recently ferried one and said it must be the worst airplane he has ever flown and he has flown a lot.
Speedbird 1.


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus fake gear switch
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2019, 19:40 
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Joined: 02/18/12
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Location: Atlanta
Username Protected wrote:
The fake gear switch on the new Cirrus trainer is not near as realistic or elegant as the ones on the Sundowner.


:roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus fake gear switch
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2019, 19:46 
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Joined: 02/14/11
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Company: Air Mass Aviation
Location: Seneca, SC (CEU)
Aircraft: 1979 Bonanza A36
That thing is smaller than a breath mint.


Please login or Register for a free account via the link in the red bar above to download files.

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus fake gear switch
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2019, 20:48 
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Joined: 08/26/15
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Company: airlines (*CRJ,A320)
Location: Florida panhandle
Aircraft: Travel Air,T-6B,etc*
Username Protected wrote:
That thing is smaller than a breath mint.

It is wafer-thin!


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus fake gear switch
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2019, 22:39 
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Joined: 05/01/11
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Username Protected wrote:
That thing is smaller than a breath mint.

But not nearly as effective!

George

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus fake gear switch
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2019, 13:15 
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Joined: 06/24/17
Posts: 138
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Location: Alaska
Aircraft: S35
Username Protected wrote:
That thing is smaller than a breath mint.

Can you imagine not getting three green on the cirrus after the lever goes down, is the chute pulled automatically?


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus fake gear switch
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2019, 13:27 
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Joined: 12/07/17
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Company: Malco Power Design
Location: KLVJ
Aircraft: 1976 Baron 58
Maybe I’m confused but wouldn’t the effort spent on teaching students to play with a pointless handle be better spent teaching airframe specific checklist discipline.

Are we thinking these pilots, once trained, will never fly a fixed gear plane again?

I guarantee you if you run the before landing checklist 100% of the time then you will not have a gear up because you forgot to put it down.


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus fake gear switch
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2019, 14:54 
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Joined: 01/13/09
Posts: 1056
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Location: Boise, Idaho
Aircraft: Bonanza A35
Username Protected wrote:
Maybe I’m confused but wouldn’t the effort spent on teaching students to play with a pointless handle be better spent teaching airframe specific checklist discipline.

Are we thinking these pilots, once trained, will never fly a fixed gear plane again?

I guarantee you if you run the before landing checklist 100% of the time then you will not have a gear up because you forgot to put it down.


So, I've got a 1000+ hours in planes with retractable gear. Up until my last BFR I haven't flown a fixed gear plane in probably 2 decades. I had to rent a 172 because the instructor I found wasn't comfortable in my bonanza with the single yoke. I was uncomfortable because on landing I kept thinking that there was something very important that I was forgetting. Pulled out the planes checklist and ran through the pre-landing check. Was still bothered.

There are somethings that I do with my plane that are simply muscle memory. Putting down the gear and checking the indicators multiple times is one of those things. When I don't have to do them, I get nervous.

A dummy landing gear switch and lights when flying a fix gear plane would go a long way to assuage my lizard brain.

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Frank Stutzman
'49 A35 Bonanza ("the Hula Girl")
Boise, ID


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus fake gear switch
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2019, 15:52 
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Joined: 01/23/13
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Location: Albany, NY
Aircraft: C-182RG, C-172, PA28
From an education/training perspective, it's actually pretty good, using the law of primacy to build a habit. Doesn't matter that it's tiny or that it doesn't do anything but switch some LEDs from red to green. Recite that line on the checklist and perform the action 100 times and it'll be drilled into your memory forever.

Cockpit procedures trainers are proven educational tools that work well, even with dummy switches.

I flew for over 25 years in fixed gear planes, most of which had a fixed prop too. GUMP made no sense to me as a memory aid, since 2 of the 4 items were not applicable. When I transitioned to the RG it started making sense, but that extra motion is still foreign to me. Someone here suggested doing GUMP on every landing even if I'm not flying the RG, and that's helping me.


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus fake gear switch
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2019, 16:00 
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Joined: 07/17/12
Posts: 234
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Location: Odessa, TX
Aircraft: Bonanza A36
It has a switch on the passenger side console that looks like the instructor can select a gear failure simulation also.


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus fake gear switch
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2019, 16:02 
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Joined: 04/26/13
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Location: Columbus , IN (KBAK)
Aircraft: 1968 Baron D55
Username Protected wrote:
Someone here suggested doing GUMP on every landing even if I'm not flying the RG, and that's helping me.

I do that. Cessna 172, rolling out on final; Gas (both), Undercarriage (down and welded), Mixture (Set), Prop (Turning). It keeps the mnemonic standard across airframes and makes you think about it at the same time.

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus fake gear switch
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2019, 18:08 
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Joined: 05/17/11
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Location: KFRG
Aircraft: 421C
I heard they put the gear switch there because they couldn't get the retractable version certified. :rofl: :peace:


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus fake gear switch
PostPosted: 30 Sep 2019, 19:08 
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Joined: 02/10/17
Posts: 327
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Company: Fly Buy LLC
Location: FL MT ME TN
Aircraft: BE-58, C501, PA-12
I solo’d at 16. It was 1986 in a 1964 172. My dad taught me gumps from day one. We used the folding ash tray as our gear switch. He taught everything from a Luscombe to Aztec. I added a fake gear switch to my Velocity after flying “real” retracts for decades. I’ve never flown an airplane that was not landing gear checked multiple times prior to landing. Can’t think of any good reason to not brief gumps and back it up with a checklist.

I say good for Cirrus to keep things simple while preparing all of their hard earned customers to buy their jet. Even if most never will they’ll learn gumps day one.

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Karl Warner
Baron-58, C-501, PA-12


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