I could be wrong here but I think all 210 types are a little more to insure for whatever reason. I was floored at the price for a NA 210. Granted a new pilot but it was way more than anything else out there and double my Cirrus which had a hull value of 100K more. Just for kicks, why not get a quote on the malibu of same hull value and see if there is any difference or the 58P?

How may 210s are out there that don't have belly damage...or previous belly damage?

I think its curious then, that the T210N and R are both certified to FL290 yet neither are "required" by the FAA to have an Altitude Endorsement.

As far as the requirements of an Insurance underwriter, they can ask for anything.

I think its just an extra layer of 'risk' management by the underwriter. It may or may not make legal sense, but we know that insurance companies are always looking to insulate themselves from risk. Also, its another way for them to ask for higher premiums. If you don't comply, you risk having no coverage or pay a higher premium.

Thread drift alert... my hangar neighbor always emerges from his P210 sweating bullets (granted summer in AZ). I asked why his AC isn't better and he said his P210 didn't have A/C? I didn't know that was a thing.

End thread drift.

Also... high altitude endorsement is easy and good fun to get. Plus should you ever get tapped to be right seat in a jet or something you will already have that box checked.

My 1966 T210F service ceiling is 31,000 feet, but it has no ‘certificated ceiling’ and is a CAR-3 airplane, rather than the later FAR-23.

Back in the day, Cessna set an altitude record of 39,344 feet in one of these; it was almost certainly modified, but still... that’s pretty high for a recip single.

No need for a high-altitude endorsement.

That’s ugly. Pressurization is literally hot air blowing in the cabin. You just can’t compress air without making it hot. (PV= nRT or some such.... )

Pressurization With no air conditioner? Like running the heater fulltime on a Bonanza, all summer.

That’s ugly. Pressurization is literally hot air blowing in the cabin. You just can’t compress air without making it hot. (PV= nRT or some such.... )

Pressurization With no air conditioner? Like running the heater fulltime on a Bonanza, all summer.

Both the Aerostar and 421 have cabin air intercoolers for the pressurization system. I would assume the P210 has a similar system. So the lack of A/C might not be such a big deal.

And by the way, both the Aerostar and 421 I fly require annual recurrent training for insurance. The insurance company is somewhat nebulous as to what is required though.

"....must complete a ground and flight training program specific to the aircraft that is offered by the aircraft manufacturer or by a flight training facility acceptable to us 12 months or less prior to operation of the aircraft as sole pilot in command."

When pressed what is acceptable they don't have an answer. They are happy with SimCom and RTC, and also a local instructor after forwarding them a resume and syllabus of instruction. I think being pressurized is the deciding point for insurance purposes.

Pilots run 210s out of gas. They are difficult to get topped off. Line guys can easily short you 10 gallons a side. The best thing that has happened for the 210 is fuel totalizers.

Well , if a line man/woman shorts you 20 gallons and you don't know it, ain't no fuel totalizer going to save your bacon, as a matter of fact, it will just re-enforce your belief that you have more than you do ...

It absolutely is.

Apart from TJ's wise comments I want to add that the P210 has always had a bad loss record relative to the number of P210s out there. I've always attributed this (like most aircraft) to inexperienced pilots flying aircraft that are more complex and capable than their skills allow. This is why the training is always attached to pressurized aircraft.

The insurance companies are selling these policies at a few thousand bucks a piece, the only way they can make an underwriting profit is to sell a high volume of policies. Because of this they are not going to spend the time to get to know you - the more time they spend underwriting the policy the less profitable it becomes. So they assign annual training to certain aircraft types and you can take it or leave it.

A few times we have successfully arranged for meetings with clients and their underwriters to get exceptions granted but it's not easy to do and getting harder as the Hard Market has these companies following very strict guidelines. 3 Aviation insurance companies went out of business in the last year and others are feared to close soon. This is due to reinsurance pressure, not aviation safety.

AG

Unless your totalizer says you burned 100 gals on the inbound flight and you get a bill for only 80 gals, and you don’t ignore the discrepancy...

A P210 is fairly easy to fly, but a very challenging airplane to fly well.

Initial training from a knowledgeable instructor with P210 experience will save you major money in operating costs.

And if you are utilizing a P210s capability, long distance, and high altitude, you are going to encounter serious IFR weather, including thunderstorms and ice. If you aren't doing high altitude, long distance flying, you would be much better off with a NA-210 or maybe a T-210. I don't care how good you are, cover your windscreen with ice peering out a tiny hotplate, throw in some turbulence, and an agitated spouse, and you have a high stress situation. Flying IFR in those conditions needs to be as second nature as walking.

Soapbox alert.

With all due respect to your experience, anyone who flies serious IFR should be getting regular IFR recurrent training. Training works. It saves lives. A MU-2 is a safe as a C-90 today because of mandated recurrent training. A P-210 has "a," as in one, highly stressed, marginally cooled, Continental. Operating it correctly and then responding correctly when it has a problem are key to flying that airplane safely.

In short, IMHO your insurance company is doing you and your family a favor by mandating training.

I am the check airman for the local FBOs 135 Cert. I don't really have time to do it, but I continue because it forces me to do an IFR checkride with the FAA every 6 months, and I am much better for it.

Pilots do not "rise to the occasion," we sink to the level of our recent recurrent training.

Stepping down.

Great post Doug. A FIKI P210 is advertised to be an all weather airplane. It's not. It IS equipped to give you avenues to escape that weather if you haven't done your homework in advance or get surprised which of course happens. It is ALSO equipped to put you at exactly the correct altitude to be in the worst kind of weather and icing conditions.

It absolutely is not in the same category as a turbo-prop or jet, but it gets flown that way. That right there is a huge error. It is a piston airplane with a propeller which makes it unworthy to fly any where near ice on purpose.

And then there are the operational "tricks" that can't be learned by trial and error or even reading the POH. It has complex systems and a knowledgeable instructor is absolutely required. Fueling requires special knowledge because it is very easy to short fill the tanks. The ones from 1981 and older have the foaming issue in the fuel reservoir tanks. You have to know what to do when the engines cuts out because of that. So please, don't just jump in and fly. Do get a knowledgeable instructor even if it isn't strictly required.

$0.02