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 Post subject: Re: Citation Jet vs. CJ1
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2019, 12:13 
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So what is the hot setup for avionics that are available for a straight CJ? GTN750's seem to be, what about G600 TXi?


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 Post subject: Re: Citation Jet vs. CJ1
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2019, 12:27 
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Username Protected wrote:
They should be like patents. A certain number of years of exclusive use by the creator and then they go public and freely available.

Even if that was true, that still doesn't mean the STC magically is allowed to have updates. Somebody would have to spend the money to get the update approved.

And who would do that if the STC is now public?

What needs to happen is either the OEM figures out how to get the STC updated to allow updates, or somebody else seeks an STC on top of the original one to get updates.

Mike C.


In this case it would be Garmin. They’d be on the hook to assure the new software is compatible but would have all of the documentation from the original STC to work with. Presumably they’d charge a small fee for this along the lines of what they charge for database updates.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation Jet vs. CJ1
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2019, 12:56 
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How far will a straight CJ go? I met a guy with one a few months ago and he said it was a sub 1000 mile range plane with any sort of payload beyond the pilot. Doesn't seem right with the amount of fuel it carries.


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 Post subject: Re: Citation Jet vs. CJ1
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2019, 13:34 
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How far will a straight CJ go? I met a guy with one a few months ago and he said it was a sub 1000 mile range plane with any sort of payload beyond the pilot. Doesn't seem right with the amount of fuel it carries.

That doesn't seem right unless his plane is a heavy CJ1 or he is used to flying with heavy people which obligate him to cut fuel.

My CJs full fuel payload is 770lbs. The longest trip I’ve made was MMQT-KSAN - 1184 nm at FL400 with an average 15kt headwind. I had one other adult and 3 kids onboard and landed with 980 lbs of fuel. I could have stretched it a little more but not by much so I would call the max comfortable range to be 1200-1250 nm. Eastbound I probably could go farther depending on the wind.

Hence the benefit of buying a straight CJ - use the difference in price to upgrade the avionics. I believe Jettech may have or is working on a G600 upgrade STC.

Here’s my flight deck - it is a great SP platform in terms of workload reduction.


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 Post subject: Re: Citation Jet vs. CJ1
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2019, 00:01 
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Here’s my flight deck - it is a great SP platform in terms of workload reduction.

Sweet! :thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: Citation Jet vs. CJ1
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2019, 12:16 
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And the PL 21 isn't frozen in time? The rev that the G1000 is in for the CJ is light years ahead of the early generation PL21 used in the CJ1.


Oh, I agree. Just pointing that out because people believe that a G1000 is a G1000... I have been asked about doing G1000 in a 525 as well as upgrading a CJ with G1000 to NXi, neither of which are possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation Jet vs. CJ1
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2019, 12:20 
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And the PL 21 isn't frozen in time? The rev that the G1000 is in for the CJ is light years ahead of the early generation PL21 used in the CJ1.


Oh, I agree. Just pointing that out because people believe that a G1000 is a G1000... I have been asked about doing G1000 in a 525 as well as upgrading a CJ with G1000 to NXi, neither of which are possible.

For now...

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 Post subject: Re: Citation Jet vs. CJ1
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2019, 16:49 
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And the PL 21 isn't frozen in time? The rev that the G1000 is in for the CJ is light years ahead of the early generation PL21 used in the CJ1.


Oh, I agree. Just pointing that out because people believe that a G1000 is a G1000... I have been asked about doing G1000 in a 525 as well as upgrading a CJ with G1000 to NXi, neither of which are possible.


Textron, according to a one of their maint centers, will still do the G1000 retrofit on the CJ. It just isn't going to be NXi.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation Jet vs. CJ1
PostPosted: 16 Sep 2019, 23:06 
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A good reserve on the CJ- in vfr with good alternates close (like in SoCal) is 700 lbs.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation Jet vs. CJ1
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2019, 04:51 
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Username Protected wrote:
How far will a straight CJ go? I met a guy with one a few months ago and he said it was a sub 1000 mile range plane with any sort of payload beyond the pilot. Doesn't seem right with the amount of fuel it carries.


I’ve seen a lot of guys flying citations being super conservative with fuel which would drive a comment like that.

You can fly a straight CJ low at 600 lbs per hour doing 170kts so I go 600 for VFR and add for IFR.

I’ve done 1275nm with a 20kt head wind and landed with 600. That was at LRC and took 4 hours.

Andrew


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 Post subject: Re: Citation Jet vs. CJ1
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2019, 04:55 
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Username Protected wrote:
So what is the hot setup for avionics that are available for a straight CJ? GTN750's seem to be, what about G600 TXi?


GTNs are it for now. As Alex said there is word that Jet Tech are working on an STC for the G600 TXi.

The G1000 was available through Textron but I thought it was gone for the time being.

Andrew


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 Post subject: Re: Citation Jet vs. CJ1
PostPosted: 17 Sep 2019, 09:58 
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Username Protected wrote:
How far will a straight CJ go? I met a guy with one a few months ago and he said it was a sub 1000 mile range plane with any sort of payload beyond the pilot. Doesn't seem right with the amount of fuel it carries.


I’ve seen a lot of guys flying citations being super conservative with fuel which would drive a comment like that.

You can fly a straight CJ low at 600 lbs per hour doing 170kts so I go 600 for VFR and add for IFR.

I’ve done 1275nm with a 20kt head wind and landed with 600. That was at LRC and took 4 hours.

Andrew
I tend to be more conservative with fuel when flying in Mexico than in the US on account of the difference in the density of airport options, terrain and weather. In Texas I may have a suitable airport every 50 miles in the worst of cases where as in Mexico it could be 200 miles before the next option. I wouldn’t have a problem planning for 700 lbs in the US - in Mexico I plan for 900-1000 depending on the destination.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation Jet vs. CJ1
PostPosted: 21 Sep 2019, 04:55 
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I tend to be more conservative with fuel when flying in Mexico than in the US on account of the difference in the density of airport options, terrain and weather. In Texas I may have a suitable airport every 50 miles in the worst of cases where as in Mexico it could be 200 miles before the next option. I wouldn’t have a problem planning for 700 lbs in the US - in Mexico I plan for 900-1000 depending on the destination.


Yep that’s true, got to consider the local conditions. I was heading to Sydney last week with no weather considerations and I’d left from an airport which I had to tanker, so was at my min for VFR of 600lbs.

As luck would have it weather turned bad enroute which resulted in airlines holding that drove me down lower then usual a fair way out and an instrument approach I hadn’t planed on so landed with 400lbs. Had lots of options so was not an issue.

The good thing about all the citations imfly is they are very accurate with gauges and flows.

Andrew


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 Post subject: Re: Citation Jet vs. CJ1
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2021, 16:02 
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Can someone tell me how much TAP Blue costs per hour for a straight CJ right now? My information is old.

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 Post subject: Re: Citation Jet vs. CJ1
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2021, 16:56 
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Username Protected wrote:
Can someone tell me how much TAP Blue costs per hour for a straight CJ right now? My information is old.

About $165/hr/engine. Varies a few bucks depending on exact engine.

Williams will tell you if you ask them.

WIproductsupport@williams-int.com

Mike C.

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