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 Post subject: Re: Tell Me About Super Decathlons
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2019, 01:06 
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Joined: 05/29/14
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I was given a Fathers day present by my wife, for my son and I to go to Medicine Hat Alberta to train with the legendary Les Little for our tail wheel checkout on their 180 HP SD. We also received Upset and Acrobatics training from Miles Crane.
A most enjoyable weekend!

Murray


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 Post subject: Re: Tell Me About Super Decathlons
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2019, 04:21 
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Owners complain about small useful loads, two people with parachutes will be limited on how much fuel can be taken. But the Pitts S2B has the same issue. I personally, never did acro with more than half tanks anyway.



Ron you have more experience than I do but the plane handles differently with more than half tanks anyway IME. I rarely fuel with more than half tanks and that gives a comfortable 1.5 hours flying time. The first time I flew with parachutes was in Las Vegas in a 7ECA. The climb rate isn’t impressive in that heat with 2 aboard but the thing I wondered about was how the heck anyone would get out in an emergency. Whenever I wear a chute in my plane I figure I’m just being legal - not safer!

Which brings another suggestion - look for a plane with the adjustable front seat. It gives a couple of more inches of leg room. Those over 6 feet can fly the basic plane fine but your knees will be up against the panel.

As a tail wheel it isn’t much of a challenge compared to something like the Waco - excellent visibility, very little adverse yaw, with spade(highly recommended) excellent roll feel, outstanding trimability and a power to weight ratio that makes it feel like riding an elevator on takeoff. It has an excellent glide as well. Falling leafs are easy and giving up the stick and landing with power and feet, while a challenge, isn’t too difficult. Easy to spin it is still dynamically stable. It’s also just a great airplane to go buzzing around looking at the world from. That’s my primary use - just tooling around early in the morning, remembering how joyful it is to just fly - and wishing the airport wasn’t so quiet and pilot free.

_________________
Travel Air B4000, Waco UBF2,UMF3,YMF5, UPF7,YKS 6, Fairchild 24W, Cessna 120
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 Post subject: Re: Tell Me About Super Decathlons
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2019, 15:29 
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Joined: 08/21/13
Posts: 392
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Company: Horizon Aviation
Aircraft: T303, Pitts M12, T-6
I think the SD is one of the best "second planes" you can have. And if local flying with no more than two is your thing then I think it's a great "only plane" to have.

For many years I have had a light twin and an SD. If I'm not going far, I'll take the SD because it is so darn nice to fly. Winter, summer, whenever - it's a joy.

Handling is very good. If you have realistic expectations than you'll be very pleased. It's no Extra 300 - so don't expect it to be.

Minimal maintenance. Great engine. Easy handling.

Zeke


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 Post subject: Re: Tell Me About Super Decathlons
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2019, 15:38 
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Joined: 10/07/10
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Aircraft: Pitts S-2B
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If I could only own one plane, it would be a Decathlon. All around great plane. Can win Sportsman level aerobatic competitions (I would not snap one so Sportsman is as high as I would go), decent XC plane for shorter XC flights, and can do some off field work.

Most of my series time was actually in a 7ECA and it was a bit undepowered. The 150HP 8KCAB was actually really nice and the 180HP was better, but not so much better that I would worry about the difference unless you have high density altitudes to deal with.

Easy TW planes to fly. Great viability all around but especially taxiing. One thing is that you can buy an older model that has been redone for less than a newer one and they are about the same plane with just a higher price on the newer one.

My 7ECA had wood spars and they are not something to be afraid off if the plane has been taken care of, not ground looped, stored in a hangar. The issues they had seemed to have been from planes that had drug a wingtip or sat outside in the weather a bunch.

The new Extreme 8KCAB had an aileron issue that sounded expensive. This is the 210 HP one with symmetrical ailerons. They had (IIRC) aileron attachment issues.

The plane is allowed to snap roll, but it will increase your MX costs. The nose ribs break and crack under the load and the fuel tanks have been known to leak if snapped a bunch.

Owners complain about small useful loads, two people with parachutes will be limited on how much fuel can be taken. But the Pitts S2B has the same issue. I personally, never did acro with more than half tanks anyway.

Basically, I love the plane. I most likely will own another in the future when the Pitts becomes a bit more "Hair on fire" than I want.


I was going to write a lengthy response but it would have been pretty much word-for-word the same as Ron's. The Super D is one of my favorite airplanes to noodle around, fly short XCs and fly Sportsman level acro. There was a gear change at some point (15 years ago?) that increased the max gross from 1800 to 1950lbs which is a huge difference if you want to fill the airplane and go somewhere.

I've never flown the Xtreme version but I feel like it was an answer to a question that wasn't really asked. The 180hp Super D is wonderful.


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 Post subject: Re: Tell Me About Super Decathlons
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2019, 15:46 
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Location: Albany, NY
Aircraft: C-182RG, C-172, PA28
Martin, was that gear change only on the Decathalons, or was it on the 7-series as well?

I always assumed the gross weight was limited by the wing, not the gear, and as a big and stout guy the useful load always seemed like a limiting factor. I figured I could carry less than 2 hours of gas and 1 1/2 of me. Forget parachutes.


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 Post subject: Re: Tell Me About Super Decathlons
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2019, 15:54 
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Aircraft: Pitts S-2B
Looks like the newer aluminum gear can be retrofitted to any of them based on this:

http://www.americanchampionaircraft.com ... sl422a.pdf

I believe the retrofit is a fairly involved/expensive process. My understanding with the 8KCAB was that it was the drop test that limited the max gross. The wing is obviously very strong given the +6/-5G load limits. (I actually got "downgraded" to +6/-3G when I moved to the Pitts S-2B.)


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 Post subject: Re: Tell Me About Super Decathlons
PostPosted: 19 Jun 2019, 18:23 
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I'm in an S35 partnership. That's the traveling machine. The plan is a sole ownership "nice day" aircraft. NO where in particular to go, just love flying, let's have some fun type aircraft. Want to get some light aerobatic training, and all signs point to the Super D fitting that mission.

Thanks
Seth


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 Post subject: Re: Tell Me About Super Decathlons
PostPosted: 20 Jun 2019, 20:08 
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Joined: 12/30/10
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Location: KFGU (Collegedale TN)
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Seth,

I owned a Super Decathlon for over 15 years and loved every damn second I owned it. I just sold it to a buddy three hangars down the row and he has encouraged me to fly her anytime I like. Me and One-Alpha-Charlie flew to Oshkosh four times, always with a passenger and stuffed to the gills; Tucson Arizona and back twice and a great northeastern USA - including the Hudson Rover VFR corridor and Niagara Falls. It'll do it inverted ... four minutes at a time ... all day long too (this is about three and a half minutes longer than I like), it hammer-heads, loops, spins, and rolls so easily you'll think you're a great pilot.

Mine was 180hp ... and all Decathlons have constant speed props (two blades works best IMHO)

I don't know how long I'm going to be able to go without one ... I love them.


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 Post subject: Re: Tell Me About Super Decathlons
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2019, 11:27 
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Joined: 11/25/16
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Username Protected wrote:
Which brings another suggestion - look for a plane with the adjustable front seat. It gives a couple of more inches of leg room. Those over 6 feet can fly the basic plane fine but your knees will be up against the panel.

Can it be added via STC?

Any other solutions for more legroom?


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 Post subject: Re: Tell Me About Super Decathlons
PostPosted: 25 Jun 2019, 09:26 
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Location: New Jersey, KVAY
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Username Protected wrote:
Martin, was that gear change only on the Decathalons, or was it on the 7-series as well?

I always assumed the gross weight was limited by the wing, not the gear, and as a big and stout guy the useful load always seemed like a limiting factor. I figured I could carry less than 2 hours of gas and 1 1/2 of me. Forget parachutes.


The gross weight increase (1950 lbs) on the planes with the aluminum gear only applies to normal category operations. Acro is still limited to 1800lbs.


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 Post subject: Re: Tell Me About Super Decathlons
PostPosted: 25 Jun 2019, 19:11 
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Mine was 180hp ... and all Decathlons have constant speed props (two blades works best IMHO.


Just an FYI, the first 8KCAB's were 150HP and fixed pitch or CS. http://8kcab.com/8KCAB-Hist5.html They just slapped a symmetrical wing on a 7KCAB

I'll be honest, first time I saw one I was confused. Jim Taylor owned it.


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 Post subject: Re: Tell Me About Super Decathlons
PostPosted: 30 Jun 2019, 18:33 
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Company: Sams Aircraft
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I have a KCAB for 8 yr. love it.


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 Post subject: Re: Tell Me About Super Decathlons
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2019, 18:47 
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Joined: 08/24/13
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Company: Retired
Location: Farmersville, TX
Aircraft: 2007 RANS S-6ES
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Can it (adjustable seat) be added via STC?

Any other solutions for more legroom?


I currently own a '65 7ECA, and it came standard with a 3-position "adjustable" seat. Every Citabria I've seen has the same front seat. I didn't realize there were any out there that DON'T have the adjustable front seat.

Having said that, I wish it would adjust to further aft... I'm only 5'11", but would like another inch of rearward travel if I could get it. I understand that the limiting factor on that was the rear stick: If the front seat moved any further to the rear, the stick would contact the seat back and prevent full-forward deflection. At least one person I know modified the stick by bending it more for better clearance. (I can't find any way to do this legally, and It's not worth the risk of doing it without an STC.)

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Jim Parker
2007 Rans S-6ES


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 Post subject: Re: Tell Me About Super Decathlons
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2019, 19:50 
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Joined: 01/19/16
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Great airplanes. I have owned a couple of early wood spar model 8KCABs and various 7 series models. As previously mentioned it is best to go with the newer wings. I know of one that is very low time that is not on the market but I was recently consulted about selling it. It is in license but has an issue. The factory used a water based product in the covering for a short period. There are bumps under the fabric on the wing leading edges. It will need the wings recovered. If you are interested in it send PM.


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 Post subject: Re: Tell Me About Super Decathlons
PostPosted: 08 Jul 2019, 20:17 
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Seth, the July '19 issue of Aviation Consumer has an article about SDs.

George

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