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19 Mar 2024, 09:59 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Celebrating the 500th Vision Jet
PostPosted: 20 Oct 2023, 14:10 
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Like it or not, 500 is an impressive number.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/8hyb0PTweKE[/youtube]


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 Post subject: Re: Celebrating the 500th Vision Jet
PostPosted: 20 Oct 2023, 15:34 
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Username Protected wrote:
Like it or not, 500 is an impressive number.

They represent a fantastic opportunity when they tire of their "turboprop jet" and want a real one.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Celebrating the 500th Vision Jet
PostPosted: 20 Oct 2023, 15:47 
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I think that was a popular sentiment when the first Cessna 500 Citation came out. Look where they are now.

George

George

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 Post subject: Re: Celebrating the 500th Vision Jet
PostPosted: 20 Oct 2023, 15:58 
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I would take that turboprop jet over any 200 knot pressurized piston twin.

Always surprised how negative you are on it Mike given your continually refrain of 300kts will change your life. It's a real 300kt plane and its range is good for 95% of people's missions.

Comparing it to any twin jet just misses the point. It's a big performance step up from an SR22 without much increase in complexity. And it fits in a small hanger. Cool planes IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: Celebrating the 500th Vision Jet
PostPosted: 20 Oct 2023, 15:59 
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Joined: 06/17/14
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Username Protected wrote:
Like it or not, 500 is an impressive number.


I thought 500 was nice for the Eclipse 500 but they only built a dime over 250 of them.

Cirrus has managed to sell an easy to operate and maintain VLJ and has done so at a handsome profit even though it is slower than a "Slowtation".

They sold nearly 100 SF-50s Cirrus Jets last year! Three of them came to KJYO. That's a over 1/4 Billion U$D just from the Cirrus Jets! Their SR-22 business is going strong as well. They also sold nearly 450 SR-22 models and 100 SR-20 models, which is another $400 Million! All up they are nearly 3/4 of a Billion U$D.


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 Post subject: Re: Celebrating the 500th Vision Jet
PostPosted: 20 Oct 2023, 16:17 
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I think that was a popular sentiment when the first Cessna 500 Citation came out. Look where they are now.

Many pilots and passengers flying in the "big iron" started in Citations. They are good entry level jets.

For me to go any faster requires a tremendous increase in complexity and cost for very little gain in results, at most about 10%.

That's not true for an SF 50. It has the negatives of a jet with the negatives of a turboprop. All of this was caused by a misguided belief that one engine was "simpler" when in fact it is more complicated all around. Give the plane two engines and a jet like ceiling, and that changes everything.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Celebrating the 500th Vision Jet
PostPosted: 20 Oct 2023, 16:19 
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I would take that turboprop jet over any 200 knot pressurized piston twin.

Then I'd sell it, buy a legacy Citation, have my next 10 years of operating costs covered, more if you count the depreciation the "turboprop jet" will suffer in that time.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Celebrating the 500th Vision Jet
PostPosted: 20 Oct 2023, 16:24 
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Username Protected wrote:
Always surprised how negative you are on it Mike given your continually refrain of 300kts will change your life.

Over a 200 knot piston, yes.

Over a true jet, no.

Quote:
It's a real 300kt plane and its range is good for 95% of people's missions.

That is a turboprop mission, 300 knots and short legs. So people are happy having jet burdens to fly turboprop speeds. Okay, so be it.

Quote:
Comparing it to any twin jet just misses the point. It's a big performance step up from an SR22 without much increase in complexity. And it fits in a small hanger. Cool planes IMO.

Sure, it is a toy.

But had they put two smaller engines, like the Eclipse, then it would have been truly game changing.

Two times in my life, a company proposed to change owner flown aviation with an economical jet. Both times, they screwed it up. Eclipse with their stupid avionics and Cirrus with their misguided single engine religion. Oh well, someday maybe someone will get it right. My disdain comes from the gap between what it could have been and what it is, and how blindingly obvious the errors are that made that gap so large.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Celebrating the 500th Vision Jet
PostPosted: 20 Oct 2023, 16:33 
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Joined: 01/07/21
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Aircraft: M20J/R, Sr22, SR20
It was only a matter of minutes that I knew Mike C would rip the jet. It’s a shame that every thread here is a knock, an argument, an attack on someone or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Celebrating the 500th Vision Jet
PostPosted: 20 Oct 2023, 17:23 
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They did a good job on that video - lots of passion at Cirrus.

I finally got to see a CirrusJet up close for the first time. The cockpit is something else, tons of room.

Chip-


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 Post subject: Re: Celebrating the 500th Vision Jet
PostPosted: 20 Oct 2023, 17:51 
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It was only a matter of minutes that I knew Mike C would rip the jet. It’s a shame that every thread here is a knock, an argument, an attack on someone or something.


I would fly one if given the chance, I just wouldn't be too happy flying one into any sort of weather, I'd rather be in the KA for those days


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 Post subject: Re: Celebrating the 500th Vision Jet
PostPosted: 20 Oct 2023, 17:58 
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Joined: 03/03/11
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Aircraft: Piaggio Avanti
The Eclipse range is not that great especially if you are carrying more than a few people. I played around in Foreflight a bunch with Eclipse vs Vision profiles. They are a lot closer than I realized unless you are flying solo. 4 people in an Eclipse is painful IMO. Eclipse also hemorrhages fuel down low, it seemed to more impacted by a SoCal arrival vs Vision Jet profile. Two fuel suckers vs one I guess.

The Canada version of Eclipse with Garmin would have solved most issues, but also would have been really expensive.

I have sat in and I think flown in all this new and old stuff. Piaggio is closest thing to nirvana plane I have found, but even it is hamstrung by inbility to do 2000 mile range.

Damn close on everything else though design wise. Had they put G3000 in the EVO they would probably be outselling Honda Jet.


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 Post subject: Re: Celebrating the 500th Vision Jet
PostPosted: 20 Oct 2023, 18:21 
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Joined: 01/24/10
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Location: Concord , CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1967 Baron B55
One of my non pilot customers bought one and hired a pro pilot. Then the owner found out the pilots would not FLY from Denver to SFO at night or IFR in the vision jet.

OWNER then sold what his pilot described as an ugly, little slow SE near jet and bought a CJ1. he’s very happy now.


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 Post subject: Re: Celebrating the 500th Vision Jet
PostPosted: 20 Oct 2023, 19:31 
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Joined: 01/22/19
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Location: KFXE
but 500 pilots can brag to their friends that they have a jet.

Priceless.

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 Post subject: Re: Celebrating the 500th Vision Jet
PostPosted: 20 Oct 2023, 19:53 
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Joined: 11/19/15
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Company: Centurion LV and Eleusis
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Aircraft: N45AF 501sp Eagle II
Obviously the Vision Jet has its place and they have done an amazing job with it. Congrats to them for selling 500. Proves they did something right.

I would rather have a Vision Jet over a SETP (well except the PC-12). The cockpit of the Vision Jet is so so nice. Best cockpit I have been in.

One of the strengths is guys feel like the transition will be easier from the Sr22. The reality of that is not true but they believe it and that’s what gets most guys into the the Vision Jet. I have had a couple vision guys tell me that’s why they went to it. They are scared of the unknown.

That being said if you have 2-3 people and shorter trips it’s a pretty rad plane. I could not afford one so I have to have a Citation. Haha. But I respect what Cirrus has done.

There is one in our hangar and yes the shape seems odd but I don’t hate it.

Mike

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