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23 Feb 2020, 19:38 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Greenwich AeroGroup



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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2019, 08:48 
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Joined: 11/25/11
Posts: 5369
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Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: C-180, C-195, J-3
John,

Actually, I agree, but it is not limited to aircraft with larger tailwheels. A spring gear hangs when not loaded. the three point position at touchdown is steeper than on roll out. My son, John Jr., trained in a Cub at age eleven. He hardly ever gets home from D.C. to fly but last Thanksgiving did and I checked him out in the 195. He flew the 180 and nailed every three point. I was sitting there thinking "what the hell?". Then, realized that, for some reason, he was comfortable with the steeper nose angle at touch down.

I still have trouble getting the flare deep enough. I usually three point.

Jg

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2019, 12:44 
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Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 10975
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Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ
Aircraft: C310, C510, C185
If it bounces it means your technique is off. I worked with Leigh Smith two weeks ago. 39 landings in 4 hours. Used to bounce all the time. Haven’t bounced one since. I had no idea what I was doing until Leigh set me straight.

Learned in a Bellanca and a Cub.

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Power of the Turbine
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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2019, 14:12 
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Joined: 05/11/10
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Location: Indiana
Aircraft: Cessna 185
That's true; Leigh will take the bounce out of your step. That's not to say you won't get a little skip now and then!


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2019, 16:08 
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Joined: 01/28/13
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Location: Indiana
Aircraft: C195, D17S
I'm just glad John has given me a "scientific" reason I might be making more than one landing per Rwy used. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2019, 16:11 
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Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ
Aircraft: C310, C510, C185
Funny..I asked Leigh when we should use a three point landing. “When you muck up the wheel landing and have to keep it on the ground.” :rofl:

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Mark Hangen
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Power of the Turbine
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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2019, 18:56 
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Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: C-180, C-195, J-3
I wheel land both the 180 and 195 90% of the time. "Short field" is definitely shorter with three point landings in both.

Jg

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 04 Jun 2019, 21:20 
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Location: Indiana
Aircraft: Cessna 185
Username Protected wrote:
Funny..I asked Leigh when we should use a three point landing. “When you muck up the wheel landing and have to keep it on the ground.” :rofl:


One day with Leigh takes weeks to process.

Another instructor once told me, "Don't give anything back," gesturing with his fists holding an imaginary yoke to his chest. I think he meant to keep the tail down once it's down.

Thought of this just an hour ago, practicing landings. The first one was pretty bad, but keeping the yoke back, "not giving anything back," I salvaged it reasonably well. Actually, since there was no one else within miles, I was pretty awesome!


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 05 Jun 2019, 06:37 
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Joined: 12/23/15
Posts: 11
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Location: NY, NH
Aircraft: C185, HROC, PA31
Leigh is a fantastic Skywagon instructor.

I learned more in three days with him than months practicing back at home.

Especially near OXI where he can (and will) take you to a dozen strips in a single lesson.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 08 Jun 2019, 00:05 
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Joined: 11/17/12
Posts: 501
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Location: Greensboro, NC
Aircraft: C170B, BE35, CRJ
I have recently gotten into doing some ferry work on my days off from the airlines because I enjoy the adventure and it helps keep me sharp. I just ferried a ‘67 from Owatonna, MN to Lincoln, ME to be put on PK amphibs and fell in love immediately. One leg from OWA to 7G0 in Rochester, NY was about 4.7 hours, then to Portland, ME for the night since I got such a late start.

I’ve always been fond of the Snider Speed Kit, but this airplane with new Wing X extensions, VGs, Horton, a bunch of float fittings, ski fittings, 8.50x6 tires, and 4” bubbles was still trying out at 157kt at 11,500. I descended a bit around Toronto to 7,500 and saw speeds nearing 190kt over the ground.

I can’t wait to get to mainline (or win the lottery) to get a big sister for my 170 that’s been in my life as long as I’ve been alive. Cessna 185s have always been a favorite of mine, but it wasn’t until I flew this one that I truly understood them. My only regret is that I didn’t get a chance to fly more than the 8.2 hours I did. What incredible machines, and I hope I can get some more time in them again, soon!


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 09 Jun 2019, 18:13 
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You are lucky to have flown one that was that fast. From what I’ve seen in users comments, most of the 185 go around upper 130’s to lower 140’s.

Rgs

Patrick


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 10 Jun 2019, 07:58 
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Joined: 11/25/11
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Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: C-180, C-195, J-3
The Psycho Billy Skywagon was wrecked within the first couple of years of manufacture. It was repaired and flown for over 44 years before I bought it. Most of the repairs were obviously not logged. Three IA's looked at the airplane and said "go". Though the camber adjustment of one wing was at the limit, the airplane flew straight and fast for a 180: 138 knots at 75% power using the highest altitude on any particular day I could get 75% power.

I took it to Del because it was going to paint and it had some cosmetic flaws I wanted addressed: mostly the control surfaces.

Del barely got to the airplane before his knowledgeable eyes began to take it apart. Within ten minutes, he had pointed out twenty or thirty issues. It was quickly apparent that the best route would include re-skinning all seven control surfaces.

I left the Skywagon and Del went into the real inspection mode. The issues kept piling up, but none, thankfully that he could not fix. Some when pointed out to me should have been picked up by even a cursory inspection by a knowledgeable IA, but they weren't: like the improper installation of the brake calipers.

He found the reason for the excessive wing camber adjustment as well: the rudders were mis-rigged by 8 degrees, 7 right instead of 1 left. No wonder I had issues with full power during the take off run.

At some point, the Skywagon became the Psycho Billy Skywagon after the song of the similar name about a Cadillac.

Now that the airplane is "straight", it is going to be pretty interesting to see what, if anything, changes about its cruising speeds. We did add wheel pants and owners with them say it is a big benefit to cruise. But, you never know. Psycho Billy may decide to slow down in protest.

If I knew "then" what I know now, I would have done like a couple of owners of 170's that Del is rebuilding. Take him a 180 and start from scratch. New everything. Out the door with a new 180 for less than $300,000 sounds pretty good to me.

Most folks would be pounding their chest and wringing out the crying towel over this. I'm not bothered in the least. From the minute I got to Del, I have felt like my brother was taking care of things. I have complete confidence in both his ability and his integrity. Yea, I spent some money I didn't expect to spend, but one rule of ownership of airplanes I have stuck to from the first one I bought: don't own an airplane you can't afford.

With the BTer's hereon who appreciate the 180/185 like I do, I know a bunch of you are waiting for the finished product almost as anxiously as me. Del says, "good lord willing", next week. :pray: :peace:

I'm posting this in my "retirement airplane" thread as well.

Jg

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 10 Jun 2019, 20:58 
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Joined: 11/17/12
Posts: 501
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Location: Greensboro, NC
Aircraft: C170B, BE35, CRJ
Del is the very definition of salt of the earth. Such an amazing man and human being.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2019, 04:14 
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Joined: 04/22/10
Posts: 438
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Location: Port Vila and sometimes Brisbane
Aircraft: A36 Bonanza
My first job was flying a C185 in the central highlands of PNG. The first aircraft owned was a 185 which I wish I still had but it was crashed in PNG by a young pilot when I rented the aircraft to an operator while their 185 was having an annual.

Many years later a good mate from those early 185 years in PNG had just finished restoring his late fathers 185A and suggested I join him in his home town of Wanaka (south Is NZ) to play on the old deer hunting strips that dot the west coast and hinterland.

This vid is me landing on one of them - Gorge River. As a teen Sarge used to use his fathers 185 for dodgy white bait and deer meat runs (‘charters’ would be how the NZ authorities would categorize them :shrug: )

http://youtu.be/f2BtJoWtApk

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2019, 07:17 
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Joined: 11/25/11
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Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: C-180, C-195, J-3
Charles,

That made me scrunch my butt up so tight that I may be constipated. :bugeye:

Jg

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 12 Jun 2019, 14:30 
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Posts: 92
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Aircraft: M20E
That runway looked a lot longer from the air :eek:

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