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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 21 Aug 2022, 10:25 
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Joined: 08/31/17
Posts: 1589
Post Likes: +623
Aircraft: C180
2 wagons and one experimental sportsman flew one lap of Michigan on Fri Sat

Great time was had, some good adventuring, plenty of smiles.
Amazing how well matched the 60 yr old Cessnas are with the Sportsman as far as cruise fuel burn takeoff landing load etc are. Good matchup.
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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2022, 08:06 
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Joined: 11/25/11
Posts: 9168
Post Likes: +17159
Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
Username Protected wrote:
To celebrate 70 years of the 180/185 family,
a fly in was organised for the past weekend. Great turn out for such a small country!

https://youtu.be/gNMsYflA9QQ


That video shows more Skywagons than I have ever seen in one place!

I never fly my 180 without musing after: that is the best airplane I have ever owned.

Jg


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Waste no time with fools. They have nothing to lose.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2022, 08:15 
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Joined: 03/29/13
Posts: 834
Post Likes: +664
Aircraft: PA18, C120/180/210
Username Protected wrote:
To celebrate 70 years of the 180/185 family,
a fly in was organised for the past weekend. Great turn out for such a small country!

https://youtu.be/gNMsYflA9QQ


So that's where they all go!!


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 22 Aug 2022, 08:16 
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Joined: 03/29/13
Posts: 834
Post Likes: +664
Aircraft: PA18, C120/180/210
Recent fly out to Academy (Monterey Bay Area).


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 27 Aug 2022, 13:24 
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Joined: 10/19/08
Posts: 1487
Post Likes: +1743
Location: Far West Texas
Aircraft: B58, C180, GL 2T1A-2
New topic:
I am preparing to install a Javelin 18-gallon aux fuel tank into my 180. A very straightforward system, It goes into the baggage hold, and transfers fuel to the right tank via a simple Facet fuel pump.
My other consideration is the Flint tip tanks that hold 12 gallons each, but are more complicated in design and installation.
I would like to ask the opinion of the Skywagon (or 170, 172, 182, or 185) owners that have experience with either of these systems.
My question is in regards to the space reduction in the baggage hold, with the Javelin tank. ( I will be installing a Selkirk baggage extension, as well as F. Lee Dodge, or similar folding seats).
In the case of the Flint wingtip tanks, I would like to know about owner's experience with them as they each have a dedicated fuel transfer pump, and I understand that some of the early installations may have had some problems in function.
I do not have a concern about carrying extra fuel in the fuselage with the Javelin system, as yet another option would be the belly pod that integrates an additional fuel reservoir.

Thank you very much,

Tom


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 27 Aug 2022, 21:01 
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Joined: 11/19/19
Posts: 166
Post Likes: +157
Company: Airline Maintenance Service In
Location: KMQY
Aircraft: BE58, G44, C185
Greetings fellow skywagon aficionados. I will soon add to the stable a family heirloom N922M SN 907, the “Moose” This was purchased by my great uncle nearly new in 1969 with 200 hrs for $14,700. He then flew it about 3500hrs and everywhere imaginable. Being a founding member of the Baja Bush pilots he helped to chart most of the airfields in Mexico and Honduras (then British Honduras) listed in the original field guide. He flew to Alaska, assisted with San Diego County search and rescue and used it to commute to the east coast from San Diego several times. My own father flew the plane when on a stop through Tullahoma, TN in the mid 70’s helping to entrench his love of aviation and most certainly my own when I came along.

When great uncle Lee finally hung up his wings in the mid nineties he sold it to his friend with the option for first refusal if ever sold. That day has come and while a 185 wasn’t really on the radar I don’t want to see this one get away.

I have just under 200hrs in 180/185 mostly towing gliders but it’s been awhile and I’m really looking forward to flying the Moose home and making some new family memories.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2022, 12:15 
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Joined: 12/29/12
Posts: 654
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Username Protected wrote:
Greetings fellow skywagon aficionados. I will soon add to the stable a family heirloom N922M SN 907, the “Moose” This was purchased by my great uncle nearly new in 1969 with 200 hrs for $14,700. He then flew it about 3500hrs and everywhere imaginable. Being a founding member of the Baja Bush pilots he helped to chart most of the airfields in Mexico and Honduras (then British Honduras) listed in the original field guide. He flew to Alaska, assisted with San Diego County search and rescue and used it to commute to the east coast from San Diego several times. My own father flew the plane when on a stop through Tullahoma, TN in the mid 70’s helping to entrench his love of aviation and most certainly my own when I came along.

When great uncle Lee finally hung up his wings in the mid nineties he sold it to his friend with the option for first refusal if ever sold. That day has come and while a 185 wasn’t really on the radar I don’t want to see this one get away.

I have just under 200hrs in 180/185 mostly towing gliders but it’s been awhile and I’m really looking forward to flying the Moose home and making some new family memories.



:clap: :clap: :clap:
its a jewel and belong in your family. Take care of it and enjoy it.

Rgs,
Patrick


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2022, 12:16 
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Joined: 12/29/12
Posts: 654
Post Likes: +256
Username Protected wrote:
Greetings fellow skywagon aficionados. I will soon add to the stable a family heirloom N922M SN 907, the “Moose” This was purchased by my great uncle nearly new in 1969 with 200 hrs for $14,700. He then flew it about 3500hrs and everywhere imaginable. Being a founding member of the Baja Bush pilots he helped to chart most of the airfields in Mexico and Honduras (then British Honduras) listed in the original field guide. He flew to Alaska, assisted with San Diego County search and rescue and used it to commute to the east coast from San Diego several times. My own father flew the plane when on a stop through Tullahoma, TN in the mid 70’s helping to entrench his love of aviation and most certainly my own when I came along.

When great uncle Lee finally hung up his wings in the mid nineties he sold it to his friend with the option for first refusal if ever sold. That day has come and while a 185 wasn’t really on the radar I don’t want to see this one get away.

I have just under 200hrs in 180/185 mostly towing gliders but it’s been awhile and I’m really looking forward to flying the Moose home and making some new family memories.



:clap: :clap: :clap:
its a jewel and belong in your family. Take care of it and enjoy it.

Rgs,
Patrick


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2022, 18:28 
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Joined: 04/24/14
Posts: 173
Post Likes: +111
Location: Denver, CO
Aircraft: C-180
In answer to Tom Navar’s post regarding fuel tanks - I have had the 12-gallon Flint tanks installed in my IO-550 equipped 180 since January of 2006. I have never had any problem with the tanks or the pumps, everything still works fine. You can sense a little reduction in roll rate with them full, but it has never bothered me.
When I am flying long legs, with Reno to Denver being my most common long flight, I first use fuel from the main tanks for about 2 hours, until they are about half full. Then I pump from both Flint tanks into both mains, until the Flints are down to about 1/4 full. Then I shut off one Flint pump, and keep the other one running, while switching the fuel selector to whichever main tank is not receiving fuel from the tip tank. Then when that Flint tank is empty, I shut it’s pump off, and switch the fuel selector to the other main tank, and run from there while I pump fuel from the other Flint tank into the main tank on that side.
While it sounds complicated, it’s really easy to do and keep track of things, and it takes about 30 minutes to transfer all 12 gallons from both Flint tanks into their respective main tanks.
You do need to be careful not to run a Flint tank completely dry and leave the pump on, as you will then pump air bubbles into the fuel line on that side, and if your fuel selector is on that side, the engine will inform you of your error by smoothly quitting. You can very quickly fix this by switching the fuel selector to the other main tank, and turning on the boost pump. The engine will start again in a couple of seconds. This is obvious in hindsight, but I learn things better the hard way early on, and have only done it that one time. My passengers did make a few comments however!
Sorry for the long description, but that’s what you need to know about Flint tanks IMHO.
Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 31 Aug 2022, 11:26 
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Joined: 01/10/13
Posts: 1121
Post Likes: +424
Location: greenville,ms
Aircraft: baron 58
I had flint tanks on my 185 and had no problems, also got a 300 lb gross wt increase, i'd go with them if it were me


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 31 Aug 2022, 17:07 
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Joined: 05/11/10
Posts: 12363
Post Likes: +11345
Location: Indiana
Aircraft: Cessna 185, RV-7
How much length do they add? My hangar is a pretty tight fit.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 31 Aug 2022, 18:02 
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Joined: 01/28/13
Posts: 6037
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Location: Indiana
Aircraft: C195, D17S, M20TN
Username Protected wrote:
How much length do they add? My hangar is a pretty tight fit.


Stuart this is what a friend shared with me about his 185. “Of course I remember well the times we've seen each other, when we met at KDCY last time you had a c195! I have a c185, I attach a photo. I installed several extra fuel tanks and I think it has been an excellent investment in the plane. I have the Extended Wing Tanks made by Flint Aero Inc with a capacity of 30 US gal. and extend the wing 4 feet and raise the Max take off weight to 3,600 lbs. Additionally I have the cabin baggage fuel tank with a capacity of 18 gals. Total fuel 128 gals. This last STC: O&N Aircraft Modification, Inc. In terms of space, if it is reduced, but for my type of trips, which I need a lot of autonomy, it fits perfectly.”

Four feet seems to be the answer you need about the Flint’s. Our friend Paul in Canada says carrying fuel in the flints on floats flexes the wings “a lot” and would not recommend it. However if youre not on floats or do NOT put fuel in them they are a nice addition on floats. Plane can land slower etc with extra wing.

Using the Flints on wheels should not create the same vibrations and “wear” he described to me using on water.

_________________
Chuck
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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 31 Aug 2022, 19:10 
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Joined: 05/11/10
Posts: 12363
Post Likes: +11345
Location: Indiana
Aircraft: Cessna 185, RV-7
Another important consideration about floats is the issue of (alleged) decreased aileron authority with the extensions -- On floats we're much more likely to be able to land directly into the wind.

I just now backed my airplane into the hangar. Without measuring, I can't be sure, but it didn't look like I have two feet of clearance on each side. I might, but it would be tight.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 31 Aug 2022, 20:18 
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Joined: 01/06/09
Posts: 444
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Aircraft: A185F
I have the internal flint tanks on my 185, I haven’t had any problems. I do see a slightly heavier wing load on the ailerons when the flints are full.

Andy


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 31 Aug 2022, 23:13 
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Joined: 10/19/08
Posts: 1487
Post Likes: +1743
Location: Far West Texas
Aircraft: B58, C180, GL 2T1A-2
Chuck, Michael, Andy, Stuart et. al.:
Thank you very much for your valuable commentaries. I spoke to Chuck's friend, whom he mentions above. He has flown his 185 over the Atlantic Ocean to Europe more than once, and loves his 124 gal. setup.
I have researched the O&N and the Javelin systems, and was pleasantly surprised to discover that Cessna offered the Javelin system as a factory option in the early 170, 172, 180, and 182 models. That makes the installation paperwork much simpler, as the auxiliary fuel tank system is in the Type Certificate Data Sheet on these aircraft. For installation, which by the way is much easier than the Flint tanks, one would fill out a 337 form, do the W&B, add the necessary inputs to the POH, and essentially be done.
In the Javelin and O&N systems, one flies off the right tank until it is half-full, switches the fuel selector to the left tank, and transfers fuel to the right tank via a Facet electric fuel pump. The transfer of eighteen gallons takes about 40 minutes.
I have obtained a Javelin system that was obviously a factory install, as it has a dedicated fuel transfer switch that is a Cessna part, and matches the others on my panel. My tank has been "rode hard and put up wet" on a float-equipped 180 in Alaska; Gentleman Del Lehman has offered to repair and install my tank at his Mountain Airframe shop. I can think of no better person to do the work.
My concern is with the aesthetic part of the installation, but if done with a bit of taste in upholstery, it can be made to look correct. Furthermore, it can be removed from the aircraft easily, if the mission changes.
Again, I appreciate your input, and wish you continued enjoyment of your wonderful Skywagons.

TN


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