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28 Mar 2024, 07:30 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2021, 06:37 
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Joined: 11/25/11
Posts: 9168
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Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
Daryl,

:bugeye: You are right! The rudder trim does indeed increase the amount of rudder pressure needed. It's there, but until I read your post, I never thought about it.

You are also right about "set and forget". I have found a sweet spot that rarely requires adjustment.

Jg

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2021, 11:22 
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Joined: 09/23/09
Posts: 11840
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Location: Cascade, Idaho (U70)
Aircraft: 182
Username Protected wrote:
Oh man..... I use rudder trim quite a bit on my 61 182D. I wonder why somebody would not want it. You can always leave it in one position if that floats your boat.
160 mph? Well done.


The rudder trim includes a bungee. Remove the trim device and you reduce the foot pressure required to deflect the rudder. Light controls are are what some desire most in the early 180s. If your style is to go and play in crosswinds, slip the airplane into tight strips, and not spend much time in climb where sustained right rudder heats heavy, then deselecting the rudder trim option might be right for you.

Not an option in my 185.

The rudder trim was required for a particular float installation. I can’t remember which one. Yaw stability can become a factor on floats. The bungee holding the rudder steady improves yaw stability.


Excellent explanation. Makes sense in all regards.
Similarly, The bungee in the trim of the Husky is one of the things that I don’t care for at all.
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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2021, 14:01 
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Joined: 11/25/11
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Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
Rudder is nice in climbs and in descents, but, to me, the #1 advantage is simply being able to trim the airplane out for cruise. I cannot stand to fly crooked in cruise and with rudder trim you can fly on an even keel regardless of power and weight. It works even against the high wing Cessna's tendency to pull substantially out of one wing tank before the other.

Jg

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2021, 15:16 
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Joined: 03/01/14
Posts: 2125
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Location: 0TX0 Granbury TX
Aircraft: T-210M Aeronca 7AC
These higher HP airplanes create lots of adverse yaw when climbing out of the hole at lower airspeeds. The higher your nose, the more right boot to keep it from flying sideways. This same principle applies to my 210. Seldom do I touch the rudder trim but I do hold the right boot in to keep centered in my seat until I level off and turn it loose. As she picks up speed all that adverse yaw dissipates. I love flying and teaching in taildraggers! :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2021, 17:18 
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Joined: 02/23/17
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Username Protected wrote:
The rudder trim includes a bungee. Remove the trim device and you reduce the foot pressure required to deflect the rudder. Light controls are are what some desire most in the early 180s. If your style is to go and play in crosswinds, slip the airplane into tight strips, and not spend much time in climb where sustained right rudder heats heavy, then deselecting the rudder trim option might be right for you.

Correct, the Cessna rudder trim design uses a bungee, which is a spring loaded rod. However, the prior design had rudder return springs, so you were still pushing against a spring. I didn't notice a big increase in rudder pedal foot oomph required going to the later configuration, if any.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2021, 17:00 
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Joined: 10/19/08
Posts: 1487
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Location: Far West Texas
Aircraft: B58, C180, GL 2T1A-2
I'm sure there may be at least one other person here that may have felt like kicking a "cinchy" mule that refused to square up during saddling. (SPCA and PETA folk will be quick to take offense, but it was the 50's, it was usually before dawn, and the remuda had to be gathered for the days' work.
In the early 180's, all's needed in cruise is a swift boot to the indicated rudder... she will trim up nicely for the rest of the flight. Weight changes due to ham-fisted fuel mismanagement can be solved with rudder trim input from your Lucchesse's. No bungees or extra cinches needed, and makes for more useful load.
If the above needs translation, turn in your man card.

TN


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2021, 17:34 
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Joined: 01/28/13
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Location: Indiana
Aircraft: C195, D17S, M20TN
Username Protected wrote:
I'm sure there may be at least one other person here that may have felt like kicking a "cinchy" mule that refused to square up during saddling. (SPCA and PETA folk will be quick to take offense, but it was the 50's, it was usually before dawn, and the remuda had to be gathered for the days' work.
In the early 180's, all's needed in cruise is a swift boot to the indicated rudder... she will trim up nicely for the rest of the flight. Weight changes due to ham-fisted fuel mismanagement can be solved with rudder trim input from your Lucchesse's. No bungees or extra cinches needed, and makes for more useful load.
If the above needs translation, turn in your man card.

TN


Until Tom and a few others chimed in I was afraid the BT horde was falling in with the whining Royals this week. Gosh are we lucky to fly in this country. Go kids and enjoy.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2021, 19:15 
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Joined: 07/22/14
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Company: Mountain Airframe LLC
Location: Mena, Arkansas
Username Protected wrote:
I'm sure there may be at least one other person here that may have felt like kicking a "cinchy" mule that refused to square up during saddling. (SPCA and PETA folk will be quick to take offense, but it was the 50's, it was usually before dawn, and the remuda had to be gathered for the days' work.
In the early 180's, all's needed in cruise is a swift boot to the indicated rudder... she will trim up nicely for the rest of the flight. Weight changes due to ham-fisted fuel mismanagement can be solved with rudder trim input from your Lucchesse's. No bungees or extra cinches needed, and makes for more useful load.
If the above needs translation, turn in your man card.

TN

You know.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2021, 09:36 
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Joined: 04/04/12
Posts: 2382
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Location: O32 Central Cali.
Aircraft: C150
what are those pedal thingys for?
I do wish I flew a man card plane :sad:
Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2021, 14:17 
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Joined: 05/11/10
Posts: 12363
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Location: Indiana
Aircraft: Cessna 185, RV-7
I’m giving some thought to Bushwheels. Used ones pop up for sale periodically. ISTM I might be able to pick up a set of 29’s from someone upgrading to something larger. The reason I’d buy used would be to test the fat tire waters for less up front. The questions:
1) How would you tell how much meat is left on a used, slick tire?
2) Is the STC transferable?
3) Where would you look to find them? There’s nothing on Barnstormers or TAP. I’m really asking — do YOU have some you’d like to sell?
4) Is there another brand besides ABW?

I think the STC requires certain brakes that I might not have. Something to investigate before posting a WTB ad.

TIA


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2021, 17:16 
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Joined: 01/10/17
Posts: 1658
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Company: Skyhaven Airport Inc
Aircraft: various mid century
Any change in rudder feel with the tailwheel locked vs not locked and rudder moving against the TW steering springs in the 185 ?

Or McCauley TW vs Scott. Different grease at different temps too.

Variations in non locking TW head internal drag, compression spring age, could make the rudder force change on the 180 or stick to one side or the other in cruise.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2021, 17:17 
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Joined: 08/31/17
Posts: 1589
Post Likes: +623
Aircraft: C180
Username Protected wrote:
I’m giving some thought to Bushwheels. Used ones pop up for sale periodically. ISTM I might be able to pick up a set of 29’s from someone upgrading to something larger. The reason I’d buy used would be to test the fat tire waters for less up front. The questions:
1) How would you tell how much meat is left on a used, slick tire?
2) Is the STC transferable?
3) Where would you look to find them? There’s nothing on Barnstormers or TAP. I’m really asking — do YOU have some you’d like to sell?
4) Is there another brand besides ABW?

I think the STC requires certain brakes that I might not have. Something to investigate before posting a WTB ad.

TIA



Got ours from Alaskas list. A buddy on vacation brought them back as his checked luggage. I found 2 set of 26, 29 and 31s just now.

Think ABW will sell you a STC.

Getting them home from Alaska is a chore unless you have a method like we did. Or you could fly and pick them up.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2021, 17:45 
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Joined: 01/06/09
Posts: 444
Post Likes: +146
Aircraft: A185F
I've got a set of GARAERO's that I've never tried. I don't have a need on the east cost to try them. The GARAERO's are a wheel adapter that fit the 185's and take 10" wheel tires. I think they are still available in Alaska.

Andy


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2021, 18:08 
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Joined: 05/11/10
Posts: 12363
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Location: Indiana
Aircraft: Cessna 185, RV-7
I really like the look of the 10” rims and, being honest, the look is important. But I think the 6” rims will give a lot more squish, which is the real goal.

I hadn’t thought about shipping from AK. That’ll be a pain if I get new ones, too. Alaska list is a good recommendation. Maybe Anchorage Craigslist too.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 12 Apr 2021, 18:56 
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Joined: 04/04/11
Posts: 207
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Company: First Light Logistics
Location: Phoenix Az
Aircraft: Cessna 180, King Air
https://shop.desser.com//ecomm-product-detail/323338/


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