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19 Mar 2024, 03:01 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2019, 13:07 
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Joined: 03/01/14
Posts: 2109
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Location: 0TX0 Granbury TX
Aircraft: T-210M Aeronca 7AC
I’ve read that article and agree. I’ll fly the airplane later today and give it a close look. The only load was a couple pilots and a good quantity of gas. I’m learning the airplane but have little experience.
(Yeah, a teacher who has himself as a student is a fool)


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2019, 14:15 
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Joined: 01/06/09
Posts: 444
Post Likes: +146
Aircraft: A185F
Username Protected wrote:
Any thoughts on damping tailwheel shimmy?


See the A185F Cessna Maintenance Manual on fixing shimmy, its not that hard to fix. Basically you need to setup the tailwheel correctly so it doesn't break the bearing preload. See the note on page 5-13. On the few I've fixed I needed a few new parts to get this to work properly.

Andy


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2019, 14:20 
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Joined: 11/28/17
Posts: 24
Post Likes: +21
Aircraft: Cessna 180, T310R
Username Protected wrote:
I’ve read that article and agree. I’ll fly the airplane later today and give it a close look. The only load was a couple pilots and a good quantity of gas. I’m learning the airplane but have little experience.
(Yeah, a teacher who has himself as a student is a fool)

Mark, did you get a Skywagon? I hope so.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2019, 20:01 
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Joined: 03/01/14
Posts: 2109
Post Likes: +1591
Location: 0TX0 Granbury TX
Aircraft: T-210M Aeronca 7AC
I have had the opportunity to play with one a bit lately and I’m feeling like I’m making friends with it. I think it is a pretty good bit heavier than your 180 and I’m needing to carry power a little longer into the flare, especially coming over the numbers around 60 with all the flaps the beast can give me. I still think the tailwheel needs an overhaul but the geometry looks good.
I guess you’ll have to stand on your head to see the pictures.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2019, 20:39 
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Joined: 12/09/07
Posts: 16983
Post Likes: +12377
Location: Cascade, ID (U70)
Aircraft: C182
That’s some grippy tread! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2019, 20:54 
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Joined: 04/04/11
Posts: 207
Post Likes: +116
Company: First Light Logistics
Location: Phoenix Az
Aircraft: Cessna 180, King Air
Username Protected wrote:
Any thoughts on damping tailwheel shimmy?


Keep it full of grease.
I got lazy with mine a few years ago about greasing it regularly and it started shimmying, a couple shots of grease fixed it right up.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2019, 08:19 
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Joined: 05/22/16
Posts: 58
Post Likes: +44
Aircraft: CC EX-3
The angle of the pivot is fine unless it is broken.

I have fixed a couple of them by simply snugging up the nut, so that there is a bit of drag when you swivel the tailwheel. The friction is a required part of the system.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2019, 12:30 
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Joined: 10/19/08
Posts: 1486
Post Likes: +1743
Location: Far West Texas
Aircraft: B58, C180, GL 2T1A-2
Perhaps a visit to Budd Davisson at Scottsdale would be a good, and fun project: It will hone your reflexes razor-sharp... His specialty is teaching people to land hot biplanes, and he has been doing it in his S2A successfully for many years. Regardless of cost, it is a great way to make you competent in your airplane.
I always find that landing the Skywagon after the Pitts is an exercise in luxury. The second picture is of my main (and easiest) airstrip, 900 feet at 5,500 MSL.
Thank you to my good teachers: Jungle Aviation and Radio Service, and Budd.
Best,

TN


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2019, 13:42 
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Joined: 05/29/13
Posts: 13571
Post Likes: +10946
Company: Easy Ice, LLC
Location: Marquette, Michigan; Scottsdale, AZ, Telluride
Aircraft: C510,C185,C310,R66
Username Protected wrote:
Perhaps a visit to Budd Davisson at Scottsdale would be a good, and fun project: It will hone your reflexes razor-sharp... His specialty is teaching people to land hot biplanes, and he has been doing it in his S2A successfully for many years. Regardless of cost, it is a great way to make you competent in your airplane.
I always find that landing the Skywagon after the Pitts is an exercise in luxury. The second picture is of my main (and easiest) airstrip, 900 feet at 5,500 MSL.
Thank you to my good teachers: Jungle Aviation and Radio Service, and Budd.
Best,

TN


Bud has the hangar two down from me. Had no idea who he was but see him all the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 30 Aug 2019, 18:54 
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Joined: 11/25/16
Posts: 1819
Post Likes: +1381
Location: 2IS
Aircraft: C501
Username Protected wrote:
Checking the rigging:

In classic Internet fashion, I've been told that only a very few experts can be trusted to examine and adjust the flight and ground rigging of a Skywagon.

I know of Del, but he's 500 miles from Indianapolis, in a hard-to-get-to place to boot. Who else is there who'll put the thing on grease plates, etc.?

Cross-posted to BCP, which I know is somewhat tacky.

John Effinger has a pretty incredible reputation in the single engine Cessna community. You'll will find it hard (impossible?) to find someone speak ill of him. http://www.cessnarigging.com/

Paul New is pretty well in the same boat. Stellar reputation in the Cessna arena. https://www.tennesseeaircraft.net/


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2019, 07:49 
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Joined: 05/11/10
Posts: 12345
Post Likes: +11318
Location: Indiana
Aircraft: Cessna 185, RV-7
Lemme ask about cooling.

If I want to keep my CHTs less than 380, I have three options:
1) ROP by nearly 200 degrees, for a fuel flow of about 17-18gph at 4500’.

2) LOP by nearly 100 degrees, for a fuel flow of about 11.5gph at 4500’.

3) Partial cowl flaps.

Yes, I’ve checked the baffles. I have GAMIs, with a spread of 0.2. Takeoff fuel flow is fine. The situation is mildly worse at lower RPM.

Other solutions?

I’m looking into the cowl louver STC, but the Skywagon club owns it and they aren’t selling it right now because of some “pending paperwork.” Even with the STC in hand, I’d have to find the louvers somewhere. Word on the street is this STC is good for “only 10-15 degrees,” but that’s all I need.

What if I got the louvers from a Bonanza and put them in the Cessna cowl? Does that sound field-approvable?


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2019, 10:35 
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Joined: 03/01/14
Posts: 2109
Post Likes: +1591
Location: 0TX0 Granbury TX
Aircraft: T-210M Aeronca 7AC
I think higher CHTs less than 400 are better than running them too cool.
https://aslcamguard.com/wp-content/uplo ... 1-to-3.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2019, 10:57 
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Joined: 11/25/11
Posts: 9168
Post Likes: +17159
Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
Stuart,

My Skywagon is a 180 with stock engine. I can keep the highest cylinder temps below 360 ish most times. I run about 60-80 ROP all the time. To be honest, I don't fiddle with it at all as I'm never over 65%. Half open cowl flaps cure any issues of them getting above 380. I too would want below 400 at all times. My hangar neighbor who has a recent overhaul, has one cylinder at 320 and one near 400, the front cylinders. He added a piece of baffling to the front of one and took some away on the other and got them to acceptable ranges.

If you can't stay below 400, I think good/new baffling might be in order.

Jg

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2019, 12:04 
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Joined: 01/29/09
Posts: 4693
Post Likes: +2403
Company: retired corporate mostly
Location: Chico,California KCIC/CL56
Aircraft: 1956 Champion 7EC
Quote:
Bud has the hangar two down from me. Had no idea who he was but see him all the time.


Mark... Are you saying that you have not read an Aviation Magazine in the last 50 years? :scratch:
I was instructing at the same school (Sussex Aero)in 1970 where he was instructing , and he was writing for Air Progress then... now he has articles in EAA Sport Aviation, AOPA Pilot, General Aviation news, Flight Journal... etc..
He partnered in a new S2 in late 70 or 71.
http://www.airbum.com/Pitts/PittsFlightTraining.html

Here is an article on the thread topic... by Budd..
http://www.airbum.com/pireps/PirepCessna185.html

_________________
Jeff

soloed in a land of Superhomers/1959 Cessna 150, retired with Proline 21/ CJ4.


Last edited on 15 Sep 2019, 12:49, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Skywagon
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2019, 12:17 
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Joined: 05/13/09
Posts: 159
Post Likes: +136
Aircraft: Cirrus SR22
Username Protected wrote:
Lemme ask about cooling.

If I want to keep my CHTs less than 380, I have three options:
1) ROP by nearly 200 degrees, for a fuel flow of about 17-18gph at 4500’.

2) LOP by nearly 100 degrees, for a fuel flow of about 11.5gph at 4500’.

3) Partial cowl flaps.

Yes, I’ve checked the baffles. I have GAMIs, with a spread of 0.2. Takeoff fuel flow is fine. The situation is mildly worse at lower RPM.

Other solutions?

I’m looking into the cowl louver STC, but the Skywagon club owns it and they aren’t selling it right now because of some “pending paperwork.” Even with the STC in hand, I’d have to find the louvers somewhere. Word on the street is this STC is good for “only 10-15 degrees,” but that’s all I need.

What if I got the louvers from a Bonanza and put them in the Cessna cowl? Does that sound field-approvable?


I've had a couple 182P planes. I find the exhaust fairing a very good addition for lowering CHTs. I used Texas Skyways, but I think Maple Leaf also sells them. The theory is that the fairing will create a low pressure area behind it and allow the hot air to be drawn out of the cowl through the exhaust hole. Some say that w/o a means to block that opening the hole for the exhaust will actually pressurize the cowling and reduce airflow around the cylinders. Siebel had a method to block the exhaust opening around the pipe to block the air pressurizing the cowling. That always looked like a great solution, but I don't think it's still for sale. I remember reading on one of the Cessna forums that some were replicating that with asbestos material and a log book entry. The Texas Skyways fairing is STC'ed, and available so that's the route I took.

I flew in the desert in the summer (>100 degrees). Only very rarely needed to open the cowl flaps and even then just a little.


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