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 Post subject: Re: Acquisition for a PC-12NG (don't tell Jason)
PostPosted: 16 May 2019, 19:35 
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Username Protected wrote:
I'm really surprised there is no one who has decided to just do Pilatus acquisitions. Not broker or sell airplanes, but just be a buyer's rep focused on Pilatus. If I had to start from scratch today and didn't have the level of experience that I do with a variety of airframes, that's what I would do.

It's probably because all NG's are the same. There aren't any after market mods like there are on KA's and old business jets. If you're a buyer and find one you like, have Epps do a pre-buy and you'll know everything about it. Write the check and done.



I get your point... but we just closed on a M2 a few months ago and have a Mustang going to San Antonio for prebuy tomorrow morning. Neither of those airplanes are complex or have options.

BUT... our clients aren't content to just buy an airplane off Controller and pay retail.

We find airplanes that are off market and buy them below market... that's our business in a nutshell.
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 Post subject: Re: Acquisition for a PC-12NG (don't tell Jason)
PostPosted: 16 May 2019, 20:00 
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I apologize to all of my wonderful Beechtalk friends, that these threads so often sound like an advertisement for Jet Acquisitions, that is NOT my intent, but I am on a mission...

Not to get more business, we are blessed with a steady supply of awesome clients.

I'm on a mission to change this industry.

The reason I encourage people to get into the acquisition business... in an honest fashion... is that I truly believe that buyers should know who represents them and that listing agents should only represent the seller.

I'm not trying to get a bigger piece of the pie... I'm trying to make the pie bigger.

I've been involved in aircraft sales for over twenty years, there are good guys and unfortunately a lot of crooks. What there isn't is an abundance of guys like me who are willing to work hard and protect buyers. I'm going to change that.

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 Post subject: Re: Acquisition for a PC-12NG (don't tell Jason)
PostPosted: 16 May 2019, 20:17 
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Username Protected wrote:
That same NG with a 5 blade, synthetic vision, add another 100k. For each year newer tack on another 50-100k

The -47's are great airplanes but the integration of the Apex with the whole airframe is worth the price of admission. It makes it a safer airplane.


If you want to operate out of unimproved strips, avoid the 5-blade at all costs.

What would only nick a metal prop can ruin the 5-blade composite which would also mean a very expensive engine inspection.

Apex integration making it a safer airplane, I will respectfully disagree with you. After multiple 2-screen and one 3-screen failures I prefer the modularity of the -47 over the integration of -47E.
The only thing that is considerably better in the NG is the pressurization system/ACS. Straight -47 ECS sucks.


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 Post subject: Re: Acquisition for a PC-12NG (don't tell Jason)
PostPosted: 16 May 2019, 20:27 
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Username Protected wrote:
What would only nick a metal prop can ruin the 5-blade composite which would also mean a very expensive engine inspection.


Thought that the opposite was true. Explain a little further.


Quote:


Apex integration making it a safer airplane, I will respectfully disagree with you. After multiple 2-screen and one 3-screen failures I prefer the modularity of the -47 over the integration of -47E.


We'll respectfully disagree then.
Had a single failure in one screen. That's been it after 4 years. The screens will start to tell you when they are gonna go bad. Had my GN750 reboot in my Mooney a few weeks back on approach. Nothing is infallible. The Apex is better than the Garmin with regards to event notification and all CAS messages.
Quote:
The only thing that is considerably better in the NG is the pressurization system/ACS. Straight -47 ECS sucks.


Agreed on that...... :cheers:

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 Post subject: Re: Acquisition for a PC-12NG (don't tell Jason)
PostPosted: 16 May 2019, 20:33 
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Username Protected wrote:
I apologize to all of my wonderful Beechtalk friends, that these threads so often sound like an advertisement for Jet Acquisitions, that is NOT my intent, but I am on a mission...

Not to get more business, we are blessed with a steady supply of awesome clients.

I'm on a mission to change this industry.

The reason I encourage people to get into the acquisition business... in an honest fashion... is that I truly believe that buyers should know who represents them and that listing agents should only represent the seller.

I'm not trying to get a bigger piece of the pie... I'm trying to make the pie bigger.

I've been involved in aircraft sales for over twenty years, there are good guys and unfortunately a lot of crooks. What there isn't is an abundance of guys like me who are willing to work hard and protect buyers. I'm going to change that.


Chip, we love you man. That don't mean we won't give you a hard time.
There are no off market cheap PC12's. If they are and they are selling them to you for cheap prices, you'd know that by the two 'best' price surveyors in the biz that you got yourself a bargain and boom, onto the next deal.

Me and Jason are not afraid to pick up the phone and make some calls ourselves. We'll talk to anyone if it involves the PC12 :D

Jason is just not as diplomatic as I am but is doubly as efficient.......with his system he only needs an hour :D

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 Post subject: Re: Acquisition for a PC-12NG (don't tell Jason)
PostPosted: 16 May 2019, 20:44 
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Username Protected wrote:
I apologize to all of my wonderful Beechtalk friends, that these threads so often sound like an advertisement for Jet Acquisitions, that is NOT my intent, but I am on a mission...

Not to get more business, we are blessed with a steady supply of awesome clients.

I'm on a mission to change this industry.

The reason I encourage people to get into the acquisition business... in an honest fashion... is that I truly believe that buyers should know who represents them and that listing agents should only represent the seller.

I'm not trying to get a bigger piece of the pie... I'm trying to make the pie bigger.

I've been involved in aircraft sales for over twenty years, there are good guys and unfortunately a lot of crooks. What there isn't is an abundance of guys like me who are willing to work hard and protect buyers. I'm going to change that.


I confess that your posts and threads do seem like you are always marketing your business (nothing wrong if fully disclosed). I know you may not have that specific intention.

So, here is what I would like to know. What do you do that benefits the buyer and what do you charge for your service? If you could give examples of a particular acquisition (Pilatus in this instance but I would forgive the thread drift if you discuss other planes) that would give us some insight as to how you wish to change the way we buy and sell planes.

I think I am like a lot of others here that would love some insight on the difference between Controller and your real world acquisitions.

Give us a peak behind the curtain. :cheers:


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 Post subject: Re: Acquisition for a PC-12NG (don't tell Jason)
PostPosted: 16 May 2019, 21:45 
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Username Protected wrote:
I confess that your posts and threads do seem like you are always marketing your business (nothing wrong if fully disclosed). I know you may not have that specific intention.


He is a BT Sponsor. That is full-enough disclosure to me. However I do believe he is more trying to help everybody and anybody who comes along. :thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: Acquisition for a PC-12NG (don't tell Jason)
PostPosted: 16 May 2019, 22:11 
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Username Protected wrote:
I confess that your posts and threads do seem like you are always marketing your business (nothing wrong if fully disclosed). I know you may not have that specific intention.


He is a BT Sponsor. That is full-enough disclosure to me. However I do believe he is more trying to help everybody and anybody who comes along. :thumbup:


Correct, Chip's on your team.
When I purchased my PC12 what saved my bacon was not purchasing an airplane that will cost 'x' more dollars to get back to perfect, which is actually very easy to do if you know nothing about em, which I did not. I used Sean Sanders, and he saved triple what his actual fee to me was. It was a flat fee too.

What was good was he knew every single airplane in the PC12 fleet. I've met a few good folks through him, including some of the folks that fly the PC7 and PC9.

As luck would have it, JC was the one who did the intro.......
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 Post subject: Re: Acquisition for a PC-12NG (don't tell Jason)
PostPosted: 16 May 2019, 22:22 
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 6787
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Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
Username Protected wrote:
I apologize to all of my wonderful Beechtalk friends, that these threads so often sound like an advertisement for Jet Acquisitions, that is NOT my intent, but I am on a mission...

Not to get more business, we are blessed with a steady supply of awesome clients.

I'm on a mission to change this industry.

The reason I encourage people to get into the acquisition business... in an honest fashion... is that I truly believe that buyers should know who represents them and that listing agents should only represent the seller.

I'm not trying to get a bigger piece of the pie... I'm trying to make the pie bigger.

I've been involved in aircraft sales for over twenty years, there are good guys and unfortunately a lot of crooks. What there isn't is an abundance of guys like me who are willing to work hard and protect buyers. I'm going to change that.


I confess that your posts and threads do seem like you are always marketing your business (nothing wrong if fully disclosed). I know you may not have that specific intention.

So, here is what I would like to know. What do you do that benefits the buyer and what do you charge for your service? If you could give examples of a particular acquisition (Pilatus in this instance but I would forgive the thread drift if you discuss other planes) that would give us some insight as to how you wish to change the way we buy and sell planes.

I think I am like a lot of others here that would love some insight on the difference between Controller and your real world acquisitions.

Give us a peak behind the curtain. :cheers:


Mark,

Absolutely, I’ll do so this weekend. Today is our anniversary and Amy and I both worked late in the office, so we’re enjoying the evening!
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 Post subject: Re: Acquisition for a PC-12NG (don't tell Jason)
PostPosted: 17 May 2019, 07:14 
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 6787
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Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
Username Protected wrote:
I apologize to all of my wonderful Beechtalk friends, that these threads so often sound like an advertisement for Jet Acquisitions, that is NOT my intent, but I am on a mission...

Not to get more business, we are blessed with a steady supply of awesome clients.

I'm on a mission to change this industry.

The reason I encourage people to get into the acquisition business... in an honest fashion... is that I truly believe that buyers should know who represents them and that listing agents should only represent the seller.

I'm not trying to get a bigger piece of the pie... I'm trying to make the pie bigger.

I've been involved in aircraft sales for over twenty years, there are good guys and unfortunately a lot of crooks. What there isn't is an abundance of guys like me who are willing to work hard and protect buyers. I'm going to change that.


I confess that your posts and threads do seem like you are always marketing your business (nothing wrong if fully disclosed). I know you may not have that specific intention.

So, here is what I would like to know. What do you do that benefits the buyer and what do you charge for your service? If you could give examples of a particular acquisition (Pilatus in this instance but I would forgive the thread drift if you discuss other planes) that would give us some insight as to how you wish to change the way we buy and sell planes.

I think I am like a lot of others here that would love some insight on the difference between Controller and your real world acquisitions.

Give us a peak behind the curtain. :cheers:


Mark,

I’m going to make an attempt at brevity, but this will be long, the only issue I have with saying what we do and what we charge for it is that it’s not only more words than most people have the time to read but every client / acquisition is different. We customize what we do for our clients and their specific needs. Sometimes we help find training, sometimes we manage paint and interior... avionics or engine upgrades. Sometimes we procure hangar space or help find full time pilots. So... the umbrella of what we do is anything that our client needs us to do that is related to buying and operating a turbine aircraft.

To understand what we do is usually a very long phone conversation or a in person meeting (we travel at our own expense, very often prior to being hired to meet our clients) I simply can’t encompass with the written word...

With that disclaimer I’ll just say that our fees are very reasonable for what we do, we always save our client more than we charge them, and our fees are flat fees that include all of our travel expenses.

Our acquisition fees are based on the type of aircraft not price, so a Pilatus PC-12 and a King Air B200 are the same fee, $54,400.00 which includes our travel expenses (U.S.) we require a 20% retainer to get started, another 20% upon an accepted agreement to purchase the airplane and the balance at closing.

NOTE: This is May 2019 and the above fee has been the same for some time and is subject to change. Unlike a website, this thread will live on unchangeable, so don’t call me in 2030 when a new car cost $250k and say “I thought you only charge $54k”


We have a database that provides us with a tremendous amount of information on every turbine aircraft in the world. We have two great researchers Ashley and Stacie. Some of you have heard from them as we search for airplanes. Ashley makes calls, she is sweet and respectful and makes sure that owners understand that we are calling because we have a vetted buyer for their aircraft. (owners get worn out by conventional brokers trying to get listings and flip airplanes)

Stacie contacts owners via email and is better at written communication than almost anyone I have met. The fact that they are ladies working in a male dominated industry seems to contribute to their success... I will tell you that a lot more owners talk to them than ever talked to me.

So, pulling the curtain back they do the hard work. Hundreds of calls and emails on every deal, plus gathering specs and photos and putting them on our client’s portal so they can see what we have found.

With all praise given, I still find many of the airplanes we buy myself, I just have a knack for it.

Most of the airplanes we buy are off market, we do the research and armed with real sales prices negotiate a purchase price that is below market. On a Pilatus or TBM the number is probably not much more than our fee, on a King Air it may be a couple of hundred grand. This has to do with the complexity of the market and the type of owner. An owner / pilot knows what he paid and wants to get that close to when he sells, a corporation has depreciated the airplane and they just want it gone.

If we catch an owner of a Pilatus when he’s just thinking about selling and make it easy for him, we can buy the airplane considerably below market...

Why?

Because we have saved him hours and maybe days of finding, vetting and hiring a broker. The hassle of getting specs together, pictures taken, airplane detailed, etc. etc. etc. We may have saved him the listing fee which is typically $50k - $100k and by the airplane selling in days not months we have saved him a tremendous amount of time and holding cost. Not to mention he gets his new airplane quicker.

It has been my experience that aircraft owners don’t mind the next owner getting a good deal, they just don’t want a broker flipping their airplane for a six figure profit after talking them into selling it cheap.

That’s how we find off market airplanes and buy them below market... that’s the magic. That’s why people hire us and pay us $50k plus...

Once we settle on an airplane, negotiate a deal, we travel at our own expense to do a visual inspection and logbook review. Sometimes a test flight, depending on the airplane. If it passes our initial inspection, it’s borescopes and off to Prebuy. We manage everything, knock on wood we’ve never had an airplane fall out of Prebuy. That alone can justify our fee. It typically cost a seller $20k - $50k in actual expense when an airplane falls out, not to mention the wasted time and effort.

We handle all documents, the closing, all the details... we have a checklist that is approaching the Matrix. We are proactive so that everything is prepared ahead of time, our deals go smoothly and with the exception of vendors being overwhelmed it’s a seamless process.

I don’t believe in “customer testimonials” but I’ll make a statement most cannot, any of our clients that you ask will recommend us. I probably won’t always be able to say that, we’re human and will fall short of expectations sooner or later, but for now I’m very proud of that.

The secret to our customer satisfaction, buying airplanes is easy... selling them is HARD!

If you read all of that... thank you.

I just happened to be up unusually early and wanted to respond, I’ll give a couple of acquisition examples later.
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 Post subject: Re: Acquisition for a PC-12NG (don't tell Jason)
PostPosted: 17 May 2019, 08:09 
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Username Protected wrote:



No... no they don't... they sell airplanes... and I assume both are very good at it but what I do and what they do is inherently different.



They do both. When Sean worked for me, he did so in the capacity that you do.

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 Post subject: Re: Acquisition for a PC-12NG (don't tell Jason)
PostPosted: 17 May 2019, 08:21 
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They do both. When Sean worked for me, he did so in the capacity that you do.

Yup.... In 2012 Sean showed up at my Bonanza hangar with the PC12NG I bought. It wasn't listed for sale and I didn't ask him to do it.

I was loading up the Bonanza to fly to Florida and Sean said "Here, let's take the Pilatus. This one is for sale". I gave him a deposit the next day. Closed after the annual couple weeks later.


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 Post subject: Re: Acquisition for a PC-12NG (don't tell Jason)
PostPosted: 17 May 2019, 08:24 
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They do both. When Sean worked for me, he did so in the capacity that you do.

Yup.... In 2012 Sean showed up at my Bonanza hangar with the PC12NG I bought. It wasn't listed for sale and I didn't ask him to do it.

I was loading up the Bonanza to fly to Florida and Sean said "Here, let's take the Pilatus. This one is for sale". I gave him a deposit the next day. Closed after the annual couple weeks later.


That’s a great story!
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 Post subject: Re: Acquisition for a PC-12NG (don't tell Jason)
PostPosted: 17 May 2019, 08:27 
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In full disclosure.... Sean was the PC12 salesman for Epps. He and I knew each other and he knew I wanted a Pilatus. Sean knew the owner of the plane I bought wanted to sell because Sean sold it to him brand new. The owner told him the day before I saw it that he wanted to sell it. 24 hours later Sean had a deposit. I guess he just connected the dots. It was sneaky.


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 Post subject: Re: Acquisition for a PC-12NG (don't tell Jason)
PostPosted: 17 May 2019, 08:33 
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Chip,

Thanks for taking the time to educate me and I imagine many others about your business model. Your candor is appreciated.

I wish you the best.


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