Last week at FXE I had a chance to sit in a new Vision 2 with 31,000ceiling and Garmin 3000 Avionics with auto throttle. Very impressive airplane ... cost $2.5mil. That money will buy a 2013 TBM 850 with NXI upgrade and elite seating , ESP safety mods etc. 700 hour on engine and airframe . Speed at cruise is approximately 10 knots faster in the TBM and fuel burn is approximately 10 gals less per hour than the Vision. These stats are unverified. My perception is that the Vision will impact sales on the upper priced used TBM market. Cirrus owns four of the top 10 general aviation new airplane market. 60 Vision jets were delivered last year and 90 expected for 2019. Amazing company. Your thoughts?

I've said for years that the SF50 is going to impact the entire single pilot aircraft market. At the end of the day, most flights are an hour or so. SF50 is so cheap that on long flights go ahead and land for gas. So what?

1 PC12 or 2 SF50's
1 Phenom 300 or 4 SF50's

The Vision jet has a unique spot in the market. It's by far the cheapest new jet, and that scratches an "itch" for a lot of people. Buying a brand new jet is the dream of a lifetime for many.

As you noted the Vision jet flies at turboprop speeds and altitudes, with less range and more fuel burn than a lot of existing single-engine-turboprop's. There are real tradeoffs for speed and range, the Vision is not a "pack it full and go 1000nm" plane.

I applaud Cirrus for finding a good niche in the market. They will sell a lot of them. To compete, new or used single engine turboprops need to have significantly better range than the Vision (at the owner's intended loading), or be significantly cheaper. Speed and fuel burn are not likely to be a determining factor.

Mission drives everything. The TBM is going to better on longer trips and have better short field performance. The SF50 cabin is exceptional and unlike any other. I'd be happy as a pig in slop with either. My wife would want the one with the chute and would like the cabin better, however that only about 5% of my personal missions.

What's your mission requirements? How much weight do you assign to passenger comfort and security? Put them both on the ramp side-by-side and as any non-pilot which one they would rather ride and my bet is that 90%+ would choose the jet.

1 phenom 300 please

Range and mission aside how do the two compare for maintenance and op costs if you're doing 200 hours a year?

$10MM please

+1


Mission, Mission, Mission, Mission, Mission

I think the SF50 is a sweet ride, even though I have never flown a Cirrus anything.

This weekend I had a full size SUV completely packed with 3 adults and two 10 yo boys, and a week’s worth of luggage, gifts, entertainment devices, etc. (then the wife spotted fresh fruit for sale next to KCMA), two lugs of strawberries, two bags of avacados, and bananas were piled on. All of that went into the TBM and the tanks were topped off. Could not make that trip in an SF50.

Many of our trips are just the two of us, so the weight and volume issue is not an issue, but my wife has trouble getting up or climbing down, so any airplane that requires entry over a wing is not viable. Once again, nothing at all wrong with the SF50, it just doesn’t fit our family mission.

No over the wing entry into the SF50. Other points well taken

When does Cirrus start ratcheting prices up to grow towards TBM prices? I think the current iteration may not be perfectly matched in every way, but 10 years from now it may be much closer to that. By then, they can probably justify $4m purchase price if TBMs are north of that already.

Tom, of course you are correct. I was thinking of the reason(s) why a piston Cirrus could never be on my list of future “step-down” airplanes. Thanks for pointing out in a gentlemanly manner.

How much useful load increase does vision need to match tbm? Cabin sure seemed bigger to me crawling around both. How far apart are the ranges?

From some quick Googling:

With full fuel, payload is about 500 lbs in the Vision Jet and about 600 lbs in the TBM 850. The TBM has more range (1700 miles at 290 mph, with the Vision Jet going about 1200 miles at 345 mph).

Either.....THANK YOU

Vision II tipped the scales

It is not a small jet

It is a big luxurious short jet for a few people....assuming same few people haven’t flown in a Gulfstream for comparison.

I want one but not happening......in the next five years

But if Cirrus success pushes TBM 850 prices down to 1.3M five years from now I still win

Big advantage to TBM on take off and landing distances