And this gets us to the logical discussion, in today’s market a nice, US history, no damage Citation V with mid time motors, if it can even be found, would be close to $2M, add the $240k for a panel and it’s priced above a large portion of the Mustang fleet.

The V wins in seats and speed, no doubt, but the Mustang wins in almost every other category.

That’s why I always say if the Mustang does your mission, it’s hard to beat.

Here’s the highlights;

Citation V

Speed
Seats
Range
Contaminated runway



Mustang

Operating cost
Much lower maintenance cost
Much lower fuel burn
Cockpit
Avionics
Ergonomics
Insurance
Market stability

It’s not that I personally like the Mustang better, I love the V / Ultra / Encore, it’s just that the focus needs to be on what is important to the operator. I don’t tell our clients to buy Mustangs, I find out what airplane is best for them, often it’s a Citation V.

The M2 replaced the Mustang and they still build it.

The Ultra ~ Encore+ replaced the V and they no longer build them, the 560 grew into the XLS which is a totally different aircraft.

The elephant in the room is that the V/Ultra/501 has a silhouette “that only a mother could love”. The hideousness didn’t end until the CJ came

When I originally looked at the Eagle II as an option I thought oh that thing does not look great at all. Haha so I agree with you.

But it grows on you for sure, I like the look. The front is the best view for sure. Haha

No question there are better looking jets and there are many people that want the best looking and latest just to look good. But not everyone is in that category. I want functionality and value, the 501 delivers in that regard. Especially the Eagle II.

I would have to spend a lot more money to get the same performance in a newer aircraft. All I would get is better looks. Just not worth triple the cost. Actually it’s not that’s it’s not worth it, I can’t afford it.

I flew in a 2019 CJ3 the other day. Was it clean and nice, yes. But it made me appreciate my plane even more. Just not worth the huge difference in cost for me.

Mike

I have yet to buy a plane based on the view from the outside.

Sort of agree with you Adam, although some pull it off with nice paint.



Then again, I'm the one looking at MU2s thinking they don't look half bad.

Trying to help some friends get a plane for their mission: the King Air market has been so thin that I humored looking at light jets. Surprisingly, the CJ/Phenom 100/Mustang get my typical low altitude 100-200nm milk run done on fuel burn that's not far off from King Airs (135a 90s and any flavor B200).

You get a younger, lower time plane for the same or less money compared to any model King Air.

Wasn't thrilled to see current TAP prices on the CJ (over $200/hr/eng). Wondering if Pratt's programs are for Mustang/Phenom 100 are less.

Mustang is $209 as side.

I'm 6'2" and I find the Citation V cockpit quite comfortable.

I did have all the avionics on the throttle pedestal removed and have it shortened. Makes a huge difference on egress.

I initially worried about the control column from the floor causing comfort issues, but it has been no problem at all for me. The column doesn't go where my legs want to go. I've done nearly 4 hour legs and that was fine.

The Mustang is pretty good for comfort, too, but not so much better than a V that I want to spend 25% more time in it to get somewhere.

Mike C.

I find the underslung wing of the CJ ugly, like it has a beer belly. To my eyes, the faired in wing of the legacy Citations looks a lot neater, a more trim look.


The penalty is the spar in the cabin. For my plane, the spar is behind all seats so it only affect those going back to the toilet room.

It is also a lot easier to clean the tail on the legacy models.

Mike C.

Depends on what you put into it.

In late 2020, I paid $234K to get mine done which included offsets for the old equipment. This was dual G700 TXi panels (and associated ADC and AHRS), dual GTN 750 Xi, remote audio, remote GTX 345R primary transponder and GTX 335R backup, and GI 275 backup instrument. Included TAWS B, CVR interface, and fuel totalizer interface.

I did not install TCAS II 7.1 which would have been an expensive adder. This bars me from places like Europe and Mexico.

This did include the glare shield mod (moves caution panel), and shortening of the pedestal. Also included all dead wire stripping and a pre and post weighing. I lost 380 lbs, so it was also like a gross weight increase kit.

I await a digital autopilot STC (either Garmin or Genesys) and that will likely save me another 100+ lbs.

If I was doing it again, I would delete the backup transponder. Those solid state units don't break.

Mike C.

$731,500 over a 3500 hour TBO cycle.

About $1.5M for a pair over that period.

Mike C.

Don't know, but I would inquire about the $600K spent 450 hours ago which didn't result in resetting either HSI or OH times. My guess is that they ran out of impellers and had to get new or nearly new ones.

I would also ask about the 10,000 hour inspections. Not a huge deal, but nice if they are done. I just did mine and had no findings.

The plane has the GTN 750 Xi, GTX 345, so some of the parts for a full Garminization are there, but the big stuff, the panels, aren't.

Bet this loses at least 300 lbs with an avionics update *if* you dead wire strip.

Mike C.

Says the guy flying a Commander?

As Mike C alluded to, I like the low horizontal stabilizers on my plane. I can check for snow/ice with a 6' ladder which can be found in any line shack. Those T tails? No idea how you check those for contamination.

As an aside, Santa brought me a couple of polo shirts with airplanes embroidered on them. At Sportys, both the "Corporate Jet" and "Modern Corporate Jet" silhouettes have legacy horizontal stabilizers, not T Tails. So there!

Depends on what you put into it.

In late 2020, I paid $234K to get mine done which included offsets for the old equipment. This was dual G700 TXi panels (and associated ADC and AHRS), dual GTN 750 Xi, remote audio, remote GTX 345R primary transponder and GTX 335R backup, and GI 275 backup instrument. Included TAWS B, CVR interface, and fuel totalizer interface.

I did not install TCAS II 7.1 which would have been an expensive adder. This bars me from places like Europe and Mexico.

This did include the glare shield mod (moves caution panel), and shortening of the pedestal. Also included all dead wire stripping and a pre and post weighing. I lost 380 lbs, so it was also like a gross weight increase kit.

I await a digital autopilot STC (either Garmin or Genesys) and that will likely save me another 100+ lbs.

If I was doing it again, I would delete the backup transponder. Those solid state units don't break.

Mike C.

Not that I am aware of. I believe dual transponders to be a historical hold over from the days transponders were unreliable cavity tubes.

Would be a silly requirement since a transponder in no way helps a plane fly.

Mike C.

Says the guy flying a Commander?