Turboprops should have type ratings. It’s stupid not too. The mitts sfar was not that hard. If you can’t meet those requirements you should not be flying a turbine.

Having flown with a variety of turbine pilots, I am shocked by how sloppy many turboprop pilots I have flown with are. That works until it doesn’t.

I personally know someone who bought a new 930 tbm bc they were worried they wouldn’t pass the check ride on a premier (what they really wanted). In the terminal environment those planes are damn similar and that’s where most of the accidents happen.

It works for jets. It worked for the mu2. It works in other countries. Not sure why it is even a debate.

I think it depends on the Turboprop. A modern Meridian/M500/M600 is easier to fly than a piston single. Fewer levers and buttons, and more reliable get out of jail free power. Some pistons like a legacy big twin is more complex than any modern turbine. I am sure a type rating would improve the safety record TP's, but would probably improve the safety record of pistons even more. Would just kill GA in the process.

The G1000/G1000 Nxi/G3000/G3000 Nxi Pipers were all sold with factory supported training at SimCom or Legacy. Pretty close to a type rating, but not quite. The record of those aircraft has been perfect thus far. There have been no fatals in the several hundred GX000 P46 variants of the GX000 which began production in 2009 for the turbine and 2010 for the piston variant. Now some of those planes are trading to pilots that may elect not to get the factory type training. Will see what happens. Sure hope we don't go to type ratings for turboprops. The other side of that is that pilots need to know their limitations and train appropriately.

I don't think it has anything to do with the number of levers and buttons. Truly, the biggest problem is keeping up with the airplane in the IFR system. For the most part, I don't think it's particularly type specific.

When I transitioned to the MU2, I had approaching 1000 hours in the C340, which included several years of Simcom training in that. While I knew it was a significant transition, like you I figured it was roughly similar number of levers etc, approach speeds are about the same, faster in cruise but that's easy, and so forth. I would need to learn the particulars of the systems. What I most underestimated about the step up is the difference in departure workload when one is climbing out at 180 KIAS and 2500 fpm instead of 120 KIAS and 1000 fpm. It is easy to get some quick handoffs or vectors or whatnot and get momentarily distracted at those speeds, and suddenly you're behind the airplane in all aspects.

I learned fairly quickly, including the SFAR and some required training hours, and now it's not that big a deal, but I suspect (OK, I *know*, having witnessed a few in the sim) some folks still have trouble getting ahead of the airplane at those speeds even after they've been flying a given type for a while.

So I think it's 90% not type specific. It has much more to do with the performance difference and simply being more IFR proficient.

You are 100% right. It is the flight environment more than the aircraft, that causes a lot of pilots to kill perfectly good aircraft. Lots of new stuff coming out of a typical piston. Radar, convection, year round icing, fast speeds, SIDS, STARS, offset altitude restrictions, speed limits. You don't really get much of that in a type rating though. The type rating is mainly learning systems, handling emergencies, and operating a degraded aircraft without losing control in IMC. The real world stuff that is going to get you, you learn from flying in the system. That is more the place for a mentor pilot than a type rating. I am a strong advocate for mentor pilots.

That might be the biggest problem of all. Many of those pilots don’t know their actual limitations and therefore don’t train appropriately. They don’t know what they don’t know.

In most if not all TBM models currently flying here are a few things that come to mind that make it more challenging to fly than a Mustang:

Inertia separator - closed for start, open for taxi and takeoff, close after takeoff (when not in icing) - power reduction prior to closing or will overtorque engine. open prior to descent (due to 200kias max transition speed - except newest models).

Bleed Air - Must be off when condition lever in low idle when on the ground or engine will overtemp. In hot ambient temps having it off for takeoff helps reduce chance of ITT exceedance - then you have to turn it on after takeoff.

Condition lever: Must not be pulled to low idle on the ground - ever - when bleed air is on or engine will overtemp.

Fuel management: Auto shift (left to right) has quirks - If automatically sequencing tanks during rotation it will stop midpoint and generate a master caution, same on landing. It is a distraction for an experienced TBM driver - can be alarming for a new to type.

Torque Roll - It is real - oddly enough worse in the 700's than the 850's (I'm told due to the fuel controller). If you get slow and dirty, and quickly for full throttle and don't add aileron and rudder together the plane will violently roll left. Aileron alone will not stop it from rolling.

It is not an easy plane to land. Easily landed flat or worse nose first. It is a very difficult plane to consistently land correctly (nose up) and smoothly.

Power management - Must be vigilant to not overtorque, overtemp - much more likely than any other TP model I have flown. It is getting better as the fleet matures, but still a big concern.

Rough ride - Plane is built like a tank and as a result has almost no give in the wings. In turbulence it will beat you to death if you don't slow way down.

Manual pressurization control (more work) this has been changed on the very newest models.

Lower altitude capability (spend a lot more time in IMC and potential icing) FL280 or FL310 if RVSM vs FL410

Less capable radar - smaller antenna.

Higher typical cabin altitudes.

TBM is a good plane, but a lot of things to have to pay attention to (distracting) that are non existent or automated on the Mustang. Now add this workload to a low time transition pilot that chose the ride to avoid a type rating (ie real training to quantifiable standards).

Which is why the FAA requires 25 hours of flying with a mentor after your first type rating. Some insurance companies require additional mentor time after the mandated 25 hours.

$3995 if you bring a friend.

$3995 if you bring a friend.

Decent enough rate.

In most if not all TBM models currently flying here are a few things that come to mind that make it more challenging to fly than a Mustang:

Inertia separator - closed for start, open for taxi and takeoff, close after takeoff (when not in icing) - power reduction prior to closing or will overtorque engine. open prior to descent (due to 200kias max transition speed - except newest models).

Bleed Air - Must be off when condition lever in low idle when on the ground or engine will overtemp. In hot ambient temps having it off for takeoff helps reduce chance of ITT exceedance - then you have to turn it on after takeoff.

Condition lever: Must not be pulled to low idle on the ground - ever - when bleed air is on or engine will overtemp.

Fuel management: Auto shift (left to right) has quirks - If automatically sequencing tanks during rotation it will stop midpoint and generate a master caution, same on landing. It is a distraction for an experienced TBM driver - can be alarming for a new to type.

Torque Roll - It is real - oddly enough worse in the 700's than the 850's (I'm told due to the fuel controller). If you get slow and dirty, and quickly for full throttle and don't add aileron and rudder together the plane will violently roll left. Aileron alone will not stop it from rolling.

It is not an easy plane to land. Easily landed flat or worse nose first. It is a very difficult plane to consistently land correctly (nose up) and smoothly.

Power management - Must be vigilant to not overtorque, overtemp - much more likely than any other TP model I have flown. It is getting better as the fleet matures, but still a big concern.

Rough ride - Plane is built like a tank and as a result has almost no give in the wings. In turbulence it will beat you to death if you don't slow way down.

Manual pressurization control (more work) this has been changed on the very newest models.

Lower altitude capability (spend a lot more time in IMC and potential icing) FL280 or FL310 if RVSM vs FL410

Less capable radar - smaller antenna.

Higher typical cabin altitudes.

TBM is a good plane, but a lot of things to have to pay attention to (distracting) that are non existent or automated on the Mustang. Now add this workload to a low time transition pilot that chose the ride to avoid a type rating (ie real training to quantifiable standards).

I go every year with my bud and that's what I pay. I have 4 of us going this year. $3995 each. 2 day class. 1 night. We've got back to back sim sessions beginning 10am. Done by 5pm. Class at 8am.

I go every year with my bid and that's what I pay. I have 4 of us going this year. $3995 each. 2 day class. 1 night.

Commercial? That's crazy.

Our instructors are always by the book and keep us til 5. I'm pretty sure someone crashed a few years ago and the insurance company came after SimCom claiming they were slack.

They are slack, my sim partner was the shittiest pilot I've ever seen.. they pass everyone. Also there is easily 2 hours of wasted time in that two days, and he made us come 30 mins early anyways. Yes commercial... $400 round trip on United. When Scottsdale complete I ride there in the Tbone and never return to Orlando again if I can help it.