18 Apr 2024, 18:58 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: So you want to replace your PC-12 with a ____?  Posted: 14 Feb 2019, 11:26 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26431
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: Look at Jason Crandall saying nice things about a small jet! He actually moved from a /45 to the M2 so it was a pretty good jump from an acquisition standpoint. But, yes when you can buy a very nice, late model, low time jet with G3000 in it in the $3M’s it’s easy to see the value.
Like the Mustang, if the M2 (CJ1) does your mission they are almost impossible to beat. Do you understand why a used M2 costs more than a used Premier even though YOU classify both as "fairly small jet"? You do the same thing with the use of "PC12" as opposed to specifying which model.
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Post subject: Re: So you want to replace your PC-12 with a ____? Posted: 16 Feb 2019, 15:22 |
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 6781
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Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: Look at Jason Crandall saying nice things about a small jet! He actually moved from a /45 to the M2 so it was a pretty good jump from an acquisition standpoint. But, yes when you can buy a very nice, late model, low time jet with G3000 in it in the $3M’s it’s easy to see the value.
Like the Mustang, if the M2 (CJ1) does your mission they are almost impossible to beat. Do you understand why a used M2 costs more than a used Premier even though YOU classify both as "fairly small jet"? You do the same thing with the use of "PC12" as opposed to specifying which model.
You lost me... a 2012. Premier is mid $2’s and a 2015 M2 is mid $3’s... and I assume if they were still building Premiers the 2019 model would be about the same price as a new M2...
A better comparison might be a 2011 CJ1+ and a 2011 Premier 1A
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Post subject: Re: So you want to replace your PC-12 with a ____? Posted: 16 Feb 2019, 16:50 |
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Joined: 01/30/09
Posts: 3353
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Location: $ilicon Vall€y
Aircraft: Columbia 400
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Is your M2 guy sitting in the front, or strictly back-seater? I liked my ride in the M2, except for the comfort factor. Definitely not designed for crew comfort, at least not for tall guys. I'll have to go try the Mustang some time, I'm told the crew seats are more owner-flown oriented. Cessna ran some M2 city-pairs for me. For trips in its range with the prevailing winds, great machine. For west bound flights coast to coast, no so much.  Nice plane overall. To fill in the blanks - I'd probably lead with 2-engines. I owned and flew a piston twin for a long time and liked it. I'm flying a piston single now, so I'm not all freaky about it. But for getting there purposes, would prefer a multi-engine airplane in most cases. As long as I don't let the 2x engines multiply my stupidity by 2x, I feel more secure with more than one powerplant.
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Post subject: Re: So you want to replace your PC-12 with a ____? Posted: 16 Feb 2019, 18:17 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26431
Post Likes: +13066
Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: You lost me... a 2012. Premier is mid $2’s and a 2015 M2 is mid $3’s... and I assume if they were still building Premiers the 2019 model would be about the same price as a new M2...
A better comparison might be a 2011 CJ1+ and a 2011 Premier 1A Why didn't your guy buy a Premier instead of an M2? He'd have saved millions and still had a "small jet".
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Post subject: Re: So you want to replace your PC-12 with a ____? Posted: 16 Feb 2019, 18:57 |
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 6781
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Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: Is your M2 guy sitting in the front, or strictly back-seater?
I liked my ride in the M2, except for the comfort factor. Definitely not designed for crew comfort, at least not for tall guys. I'll have to go try the Mustang some time, I'm told the crew seats are more owner-flown oriented. He’s a front seat guy, and a big guy. Yes, the Mustang has a larger cockpit and is definitely a owner / flyer friendly cockpit.
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Post subject: Re: So you want to replace your PC-12 with a ____? Posted: 16 Feb 2019, 18:58 |
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Username Protected wrote: You lost me... a 2012. Premier is mid $2’s and a 2015 M2 is mid $3’s... and I assume if they were still building Premiers the 2019 model would be about the same price as a new M2...
A better comparison might be a 2011 CJ1+ and a 2011 Premier 1A Why didn't your guy buy a Premier instead of an M2? He'd have saved millions and still had a "small jet".
He wanted a new airplane, in fact we came really close to buying a brand new one from Textron.
The Premier is a bigger, faster airplane.
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Post subject: Re: So you want to replace your PC-12 with a ____? Posted: 16 Feb 2019, 18:59 |
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Username Protected wrote: Why didn't your guy buy a Premier instead of an M2? He'd have saved millions and still had a "small jet". I would go for the G3000 airplane. Even though it is slower.
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Post subject: Re: So you want to replace your PC-12 with a ____? Posted: 16 Feb 2019, 19:00 |
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Username Protected wrote: Why didn't your guy buy a Premier instead of an M2? He'd have saved millions and still had a "small jet". I would go for the slower G3000 airplane.
Absolutely, otherwise just buy a CJ1+
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Post subject: Re: So you want to replace your PC-12 with a ____? Posted: 16 Feb 2019, 21:00 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
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Username Protected wrote: The Premier is a bigger, faster airplane. Then why is it millions of $$ less?
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Post subject: Re: So you want to replace your PC-12 with a ____? Posted: 18 Feb 2019, 18:14 |
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Username Protected wrote: The Premier is a bigger, faster airplane. Then why is it millions of $$ less?
It's not, all things being the same... they didn't build the M2 in 2011 or the Premier in 2014
If you adjust for that and the G3000 the values would be very similar.
If you compare a 2005 Premier I with a 2005 CJ1 the CJ1 books for about $200k more.
In 2006 the spread increases because the CJ1+ has FADEC ($300k more)
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Post subject: Re: So you want to replace your PC-12 with a ____? Posted: 18 Feb 2019, 18:48 |
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Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26431
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Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: It's not, all things being the same... they didn't build the M2 in 2011 or the Premier in 2014
If you adjust for that and the G3000 the values would be very similar.
If you compare a 2005 Premier I with a 2005 CJ1 the CJ1 books for about $200k more.
In 2006 the spread increases because the CJ1+ has FADEC ($300k more) You mean the 20 year old PC12/45 isn't "all things being the same" either? Your previous post said the Premier was "bigger and faster" but now you have different "all things being the same". What's the point of this thread?
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Post subject: Re: So you want to replace your PC-12 with a ____? Posted: 18 Feb 2019, 20:04 |
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Joined: 05/23/13
Posts: 6781
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Company: Jet Acquisitions
Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: It's not, all things being the same... they didn't build the M2 in 2011 or the Premier in 2014
If you adjust for that and the G3000 the values would be very similar.
If you compare a 2005 Premier I with a 2005 CJ1 the CJ1 books for about $200k more.
In 2006 the spread increases because the CJ1+ has FADEC ($300k more) You mean the 20 year old PC12/45 isn't "all things being the same" either? Your previous post said the Premier was "bigger and faster" but now you have different "all things being the same". What's the point of this thread?
Jason, by "all things being the same" I meant the year model or an adjustment for it.
The Premier is much faster and does have a much larger cabin. You think it is a POS because "if it was so good, why did they quit building it?"
Short of giving you the history of Beechcraft and it's owners, including Raytheon... and the bankruptcy that killed the Premier... and then the purchase by Textron who already had a jet brand... we'll just suffice it to say that I understand aircraft values better than most and I understand how confusing all of this is for someone who doesn't deal with it every day.
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Post subject: Re: So you want to replace your PC-12 with a ____? Posted: 18 Feb 2019, 20:09 |
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Username Protected wrote: What's the point of this thread? The point of this thread is that a guy sold his big ol Pilatus and replaced it with a small jet and why. I figured you, off all people would appreciate this intriguing subject. It is, at least on the surface, very odd that someone would buy an airplane that is more expensive, smaller, has less range, fewer seats and isn't near as cool as the Pilatus.
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