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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR-22 G3 Turbo with 4 adults
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2019, 14:13 
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I was playing around with a weight/balance calculator (don't judge .. everyone who's cool does this).

I cannot figure out how to load a SR-22G3 Turbo with four humans and fuel. With a 190 lb pilot, three 170 lbs friends and no bags, you can carry 30 gallons of fuel. I understand about tradeoffs, but if you want to go 300 miles you are taking one friend, not three.

I wonder how many Cirrus pilots "cheat just a little".

:sad: :hide:


No matter how hard I try, I cannot figure out how to own and operate a CJ2 with my inadequate income and net worth. I believe I should be able to own and operate a CJ2 with my income and net worth. I understand trade offs. What am I doing wrong here?

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR-22 G3 Turbo with 4 adults
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2019, 16:00 
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Joined: 03/24/08
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Aircraft: Cessna 182M
Username Protected wrote:
I was playing around with a weight/balance calculator (don't judge .. everyone who's cool does this).

I cannot figure out how to load a SR-22G3 Turbo with four humans and fuel. With a 190 lb pilot, three 170 lbs friends and no bags, you can carry 30 gallons of fuel. I understand about tradeoffs, but if you want to go 300 miles you are taking one friend, not three.

I wonder how many Cirrus pilots "cheat just a little".

:sad: :hide:


Randy,

Does an SR-22G3 Turbo really only have 880 lb UL or is there a balance limit that is causing the issue?

RAS


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR-22 G3 Turbo with 4 adults
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2019, 16:05 
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Joined: 12/19/11
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Location: KTOL - Toledo, OH
Aircraft: 2004 SR22 G2
Username Protected wrote:

Randy,

Does an SR-22G3 Turbo really only have 880 lb UL or is there a balance limit that is causing the issue?

RAS


Most G3 Turbos have ~900lb UL whereas most G5 Turbos have ~1,100 lb UL (both models highly equipped as most are). More stripped down version G3s (no FIKI, no A/C, no Turbo) have more UL. Earlier model G1's and G2's can also be found with 1,000lb+ UL but of course there's a trade off there as well.

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2004 SR22 G2


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR-22 G3 Turbo with 4 adults
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2019, 16:13 
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Joined: 05/11/10
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Location: Indiana
Aircraft: Cessna 185, RV-7
*C185 owner sits quietly and smugly, reading about other airplanes' w&b problems* :hide:


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR-22 G3 Turbo with 4 adults
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2019, 16:22 
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Does an SR-22G3 Turbo really only have 880 lb UL or is there a balance limit that is causing the issue?

Those are heavy options - TN and TKS, which go together. TKS fluid is also very heavy. My very well equipped G3, including a/c, but minus those options, has almost 1,200 lb UL.

Always trade-offs.


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR-22 G3 Turbo with 4 adults
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2019, 16:28 
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Joined: 08/18/11
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Company: Rocking M Air
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Username Protected wrote:
*C185 owner sits quietly and smugly, reading about other airplanes' w&b problems* :hide:

As does a T210 owner. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR-22 G3 Turbo with 4 adults
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2019, 18:00 
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My V35 has 1227 useful though I don’t have turbo, ac or tks. The CG is reasonably good for a long cabin Vtail (S35 thru V35B ) at 79.5 but that basically translates to 2 adults and anything not ridiculous that fits, 3 adults and reasonable bags or 4 adults no bags. CG moves slightly aft as fuel burns off but the aft end of the allowable envelope is further back at less than max gross.

Thinking if I were to TN it and add tip tanks, it would become bionic. CG would move forward from the weight of the TN and I expect useful load would increase by well over 100 lbs (max GW would increase by 200 with the tips). Then it would be 4 adults plus bags with full mains with maybe some weight still avail for tip fuel. Understand other means of moving CG forward such as heavier prop and/or additional ballast in forward engine compartment are also doable at much lower cost.

Just sayin...


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR-22 G3 Turbo with 4 adults
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2019, 18:29 
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Joined: 11/25/11
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Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
Long ago, as applied to just about any equipment, including an airplane, as well a real property and buildings. I came up with the 90% rule. Yes, 90% is arbitrary and perhaps should be 70 or 80%.

Rule: determine your purchase by what will meet 90% of your needs. The 10% is an outlier that will cost you a lot more money.

Another FACT, is that with airplanes we keep imagining that we have to fill the tanks. Who's going to maintain that having to download fuel and making an additional stop ten or fifteen percent of the time is a real issue?

As with most purchases, what we "want" usually throws logic and common sense right out the window.

As for trying to second guess the whys and wherefores of the determination of gross weight and CG just points out the "the rules don't apply to me" attitude that leads to so many unnecessary fatalities.

As I have said a hundred times, the attitude that there is something "special" about the pilot community as opposed to the general population is a figment burst with the reports on 85% of the accidents. Just read Crash Talk,

Jg

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR-22 G3 Turbo with 4 adults
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2019, 18:57 
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Joined: 12/03/14
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Username Protected wrote:
Rule: determine your purchase by what will meet 90% of your needs.

90% of my trips are handled by a car. I should get rid of my airplane.

But...

90% of the miles I travel are handled by my airplane. I should get rid of my car.

This is literally true, last year ~45,000 miles in the MU2, less than 4,000 miles in my car.

This points out that it really depends on what metric you are counting. 90% of the trips can be 10% of the miles.

You also have to account for the fact having a more capable airplane means you might be doing 150% of what you used to do in the prior plane.

Mike C.

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR-22 G3 Turbo with 4 adults
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2019, 19:18 
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Joined: 02/21/17
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Location: Arkansas
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Username Protected wrote:
*C185 owner sits quietly and smugly, reading about other airplanes' w&b problems* :hide:

As does a T210 owner. ;)

as does this PA32 driver.

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR-22 G3 Turbo with 4 adults
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2019, 19:33 
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Joined: 03/24/08
Posts: 2719
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Aircraft: Cessna 182M
Username Protected wrote:
*C185 owner sits quietly and smugly, reading about other airplanes' w&b problems* :hide:

As does a T210 owner. ;)


Which is sort of why this 182 owner asked the question, while wishing he had the UL of a 185.....
:scratch:

RAS

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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR-22 G3 Turbo with 4 adults
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2019, 19:47 
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Joined: 01/28/13
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Aircraft: C195, D17S, M20TN
Username Protected wrote:
*C185 owner sits quietly and smugly, reading about other airplanes' w&b problems* :hide:

As does a T210 owner. ;)


As does the C195 laugh as he tally's ho.

Lots' of ill informed talk on here about the Mooney long body's. I'm going to go out on a limb and tell you it has NO balance problems, reasonably applied. W&B. The Ovation 3 I was lucky to fly 900+ hours in 3 years had TKS, and with TKS full, could load two couples, 60 gallons and 25 pounds of bags each and 3 hours range VFR reserves and 2.5 hours IFR otherwise. That takes us 4-450nm.

Acclaim numbers of similar vintage could do similar but with no TKS. If you add TKS it is 3 person ride and more fuel so more range. NO problems with CG if you aren't a stupid(young bold) pilot...

Mooney long bodies have great efficiency, speed, room for the tall man and TKS if needed for your missions. Don't add AC unless you're a TX/FL owner then drop TKS if you are.
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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR-22 G3 Turbo with 4 adults
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2019, 21:39 
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Joined: 11/26/14
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Username Protected wrote:
*C185 owner sits quietly and smugly, reading about other airplanes' w&b problems* :hide:


At a table next him a guy with a Twin Bonanza googles “what is weight and balance?”


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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR-22 G3 Turbo with 4 adults
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2019, 08:18 
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Joined: 11/25/11
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Location: KGNF, Grenada, MS
Aircraft: Baron, 180,195,J-3
Username Protected wrote:
Rule: determine your purchase by what will meet 90% of your needs.

90% of my trips are handled by a car. I should get rid of my airplane.

But...

90% of the miles I travel are handled by my airplane. I should get rid of my car.

This is literally true, last year ~45,000 miles in the MU2, less than 4,000 miles in my car.

This points out that it really depends on what metric you are counting. 90% of the trips can be 10% of the miles.

You also have to account for the fact having a more capable airplane means you might be doing 150% of what you used to do in the prior plane.

Mike C.


Mike,

:D Only you can take something that far out of context. You know exactly what I meant, you just like the argument. :thumbup:

We have a small truck crane. It's reach is only 28' but then, it only cost me $12,000. Last year, we probably used it 25 times: to set A/C units, materials on the roof, set or clean signs, change parking light bulbs and such. Three or four times, we had to call the local "crane guy" for heavier or long reach jobs. He charges $100 and hour with a four hour minimum.

So that small crane did 85% of my work and saved me ten or twelve thousand dollars.

I won't ask whether or not you get it, you do.

But I wait with bated breath for your counterpoint. :peace:

Jg :D
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 Post subject: Re: Cirrus SR-22 G3 Turbo with 4 adults
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2019, 15:53 
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Joined: 07/10/17
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Username Protected wrote:
Does an SR-22G3 Turbo really only have 880 lb UL or is there a balance limit that is causing the issue?

Those are heavy options - TN and TKS, which go together. TKS fluid is also very heavy. My very well equipped G3, including a/c, but minus those options, has almost 1,200 lb UL.

Always trade-offs.


How can that be. I thought an unenhanced G3 was 2320 lbs, and gross weight was 3400 lbs. How did you get 1200 lbs payload?

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all ... t-of-wings

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