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19 Apr 2024, 05:22 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


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 Post subject: Twin Mustang
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2019, 07:05 
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https://www.eaa.org/eaa/news-and-public ... YifQ%3D%3D


Epic project to make this aircraft fly. Saw a twin engine YAK perform at Oshkosh last year, maybe we'll see this in 2019 at OSH.


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 Post subject: Re: Twin Mustang
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2019, 08:20 
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Epic project to make this aircraft fly. Saw a twin engine YAK perform at Oshkosh last year, maybe we'll see this in 2019 at OSH.

3,720 horsepower!

207,000 man-hours to restore --- so this is a $20 million airplane!

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 Post subject: Re: Twin Mustang
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2019, 11:46 
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From the AvWeb article:
"Test pilot Ray Fowler was conducting the latest of a series of high-speed taxi tests at the XP-82 Prototype Project’s home base in Douglas, Georgia, on Monday and the intention was to lift the wheels for a second or two and then deploy the flaps and roll out."

Sounds like a busy sequence. It ended up just flying evidently.
Very cool project.

I sincerely hope they protect it and don't bother doing airshow aerobatics and stuff with it.
Just allow us to behold forever.

Tj

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 Post subject: Re: Twin Mustang
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2019, 12:42 
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Not a fan, at all. In fact, I wouldn’t like it less if they mated 2 airframes tail to tail so they could fly backwards. They’re taking 2 of the Venus de Milo of airframes and making them into a conjoined pig. Who knows what Vmc will be be, but the P51 took a lot of right rudder on takeoff to keep it straight down the center line. Reminds me of that move Human Centipede, where the mad scientist connects 3 humans mouth to butt.


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 Post subject: Re: Twin Mustang
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2019, 12:49 
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Not a fan, at all. In fact, I wouldn’t like it less if they mated 2 airframes tail to tail so they could fly backwards. They’re taking 2 of the Venus de Milo of airframes and making them into a conjoined pig. Who knows what Vmc will be be, but the P51 took a lot of right rudder on takeoff to keep it straight down the center line. Reminds me of that move Human Centipede, where the mad scientist connects 3 humans mouth to butt.


You do know that this is a P-82, not 2 P-51s that someone bolted together correct? Nearly 400 were built and served in the Korean War timeframe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Ame ... in_Mustang

As to the accidental flight. I know the pilot, Ray Fowler, and I doubt it was accidental. A takeoff, and subsequent abort, is about the most dangerous thing you could do in an airplane. If, as reported, the FAA wanted to see it lift off, and stop, then I would tell them that was the plan, and then go flying. An RTO in this airplane after lift off, would be terrifying, unless you had 3 miles of runway. And foolish.

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 Post subject: Re: Twin Mustang
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2019, 13:47 
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I didn't realize that the P-82 was a different airframe until this project hit my aviation news feed last year and I did some reading about it. I think it was a genius move, making it look like a well-regarded plane to make the money spenders think they were just bolting two existing airframes together.

Doug, thanks for your perspective on the flight. I wondered about the wisdom of making a high speed taxi test that purposely left the ground, but I don't have any experience with these things.


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 Post subject: Re: Twin Mustang
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2019, 13:53 
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As to the accidental flight. I know the pilot, Ray Fowler, and I doubt it was accidental. A takeoff, and subsequent abort, is about the most dangerous thing you could do in an airplane. If, as reported, the FAA wanted to see it lift off, and stop, then I would tell them that was the plan, and then go flying. An RTO in this airplane after lift off, would be terrifying, unless you had 3 miles of runway. And foolish.


I wondered the same thing....
I've known many "first flights" where the FSDO said you cannot fly out of KXYZ, must be disassembled and sent elsewhere for first flight. Pshhh.

Ray is s good dude.
Tj

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 Post subject: Re: Twin Mustang
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2019, 16:25 
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You do know that this is a P-82, not 2 P-51s that someone bolted together correct? Nearly 400 were built and served in the Korean War timeframe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Ame ... in_Mustang


No, I just saw what looked like 2 P-51 fuselages bolted together. It hurt my eyes. But if that one is a legitimate warbird, then I could support their efforts, all 207,000 hrs worth. The P-51 is my favorite bird of all time. I think I would trade my house and A36 and live in a double wide if it meant I could get and maintain a Mustang. Thanks for pointing that out.


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 Post subject: Re: Twin Mustang
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2019, 21:48 
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Username Protected wrote:

You do know that this is a P-82, not 2 P-51s that someone bolted together correct? Nearly 400 were built and served in the Korean War timeframe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Ame ... in_Mustang


No, I just saw what looked like 2 P-51 fuselages bolted together. It hurt my eyes. But if that one is a legitimate warbird, then I could support their efforts, all 207,000 hrs worth. The P-51 is my favorite bird of all time. I think I would trade my house and A36 and live in a double wide if it meant I could get and maintain a Mustang. Thanks for pointing that out.


Also the XP-82 has counter-rotating engines and props basically cancelling out P-factor. No need for heavy right rudder as you would on a P-51 (or other high powered tail draggers).

One of the big advantages of the P-38 was the same prop/engine configuration.

Dan

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 Post subject: Re: Twin Mustang
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2019, 22:09 
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The P-38 has contra-rotating propellers. Bot engines turn outboard so both are critical... The Cheyenne 400 does as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Twin Mustang
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2019, 23:35 
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 Post subject: Re: Twin Mustang
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2019, 23:46 
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Username Protected wrote:
The P-38 has contra-rotating propellers. Bot engines turn outboard so both are critical... The Cheyenne 400 does as well.



I didn’t know that. I wonder why they were built that way? I assume there is some design or performance advantage?

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: Twin Mustang
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2019, 00:06 
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The P-38 has contra-rotating propellers. Bot engines turn outboard so both are critical... The Cheyenne 400 does as well.



I didn’t know that. I wonder why they were built that way? I assume there is some design or performance advantage?

Robert


The urban legend is they installed the engines counter rotating and it flew poorly. Someone suggested swapping them, they did, and it flew much better. It has to do with the slipstream impact on the horizontal stabilizer.
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 Post subject: Re: Twin Mustang
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2019, 00:15 
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Username Protected wrote:

The urban legend is they installed the engines counter rotating and it flew poorly. Someone suggested swapping them, they did, and it flew much better. It has to do with the slipstream impact on the horizontal stabilizer.



Ha, that addresses my follow up question which was, “why not switch the engines”? :D

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: Twin Mustang
PostPosted: 05 Jan 2019, 03:54 
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Username Protected wrote:
The urban legend is they installed the engines counter rotating and it flew poorly. Someone suggested swapping them, they did, and it flew much better.
As Doug undoubtedly knows, the same applied to the XP-82 in reverse. It was originally designed with outward rotating props (blades going up in the middle) but couldn't take off. The propwash was increasing the AoA on the center section so much that it was stalled. They swapped the engines to blades going down in the middle and it flew beautifully. Story is that a junior designer had predicted that and made a bet with the chief designer (he paid up, amount unrecorded).


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