They rarely do, it's pretty hard to beat a turboprop if you compare cost / capacity vs cost / capacity. If you're using the PC12 to carry four people and you compare it to a CJ2+ then the jet looks pretty good... but it won't do what the PC-12 will do. People, speed or low op cost... pick any two.

Of course. When a bank makes a loan they are putting at risk their capital. If you default it's a direct hit to capital which means your problems become their problems. If you create a problem for me I want you to fix it. What's wrong with that.

Banks are in the risk management business so when a loan customer gets into trouble they are highly motivated to work with the customer to get paid back eventually. But in my experience loan customers lie, cheat, hide, etc. when they get in trouble. That makes it hard for anyone to help them. Or want to.

Leverage is a tool but it has negative qualities for those who don't use it properly.

Banks are just a business that buys and sells money. If you don't like them don't do business with them. Use your own money and take all your own risks. But when you ask someone else to take risk with you, whether an investor, partner or lender you're asking them to take a lot of risk with you. I can't understand why anyone would think that if you've given someone else a problem they shouldn't do everything they can to solve it.

I think most of us think they're actually not taking much risk and that's where the mistrust comes from. Banks are very bad at seeing the big picture. They only see right now, only interested in your personal earnings, guarantees etc. They don't even look at the business returns even though your business is doing the application. Just go in and try to get a loan for new machinery/tool on the company at a bank and see what happens - zero takers. Buy real estate solely on the business? You need to personally guarantee it, etc, etc.

That's not a very high risk their taking in my opinion. I put 30% down on my house and they treated me like a crook all the way.

Totally off topic but real quick... you guys have it all wrong. Banks are in the RENTAL business not the RISK business. They take a margin on money, that's all, usually around 4%, sometimes less, sometimes more. The margins are too tight for them to remain profitable and still have room to withstand hits or take on "risk".

You want money for risk? Then its Private Equity or Venture Capital. They will expect larger margins, greater rewards.... of course accepting greater risk.

I own a chunk of a bank, sit on the board and loan committees. It's not my primary business by any means but I do have some understanding of how it works. Trust me, there is plenty of risk. When someone doesn't pay us back it costs us (me) real money and it's money I made, paid taxes on then invested, not borrowed.

I see lots of business financials, tax returns, etc. I see lots of personal financial statements that are the product of ignorance, wishful thinking or worse. Bankers have to parse through all that to determine credit worthiness and risk of a given deal and borrower. So, they're in the risk management business.

Anyone who feels that they are treated like a crook is either dealing with a poor bank (it's a service business for crying out loud) or something else is going on.

Almost all small business loans require the guaranty of the owners. It's pretty easy for a "business" to avoid paying loans back if they want to. Essentially the business' credit is the owners. Lots of reasons for that but it is what it is. I don't borrow a lot of money but what I do is personally guaranteed. Big deal.

It's a relationship business. The best way to be treated well, get a good deal, have a good experience, etc. is to develop the relationship. Banks only make money when they loan it out for more than they pay for the money. They want great customers with long term relationships just like any other business.

The post on AvWeb gives updates on the Denali including a picture of three airframes being built but in addition it gives some input on the progress of the engine.

"The aircraft is expected to have a maximum cruise speed of 285 KTAS, service ceiling of 31,000 feet, full fuel payload of 1100 pounds and range of up to 1,600 NM."

Would love for it to do all that, at the same time.

Myself, and a lot of others are probably eagerly awaiting some actual flight numbers.

Aren't those the exact PC 12 performance numbers?

Aren't those the exact PC 12 performance numbers?

Aren't those the exact PC 12 performance numbers?

Aren't those the exact PC 12 performance numbers?

There is no one faster than Penman.

Penman needs a P180. But he's scared. I almost had him, but then he chickened out;)