banner
banner

29 Mar 2024, 02:14 [ UTC - 5; DST ]


Concorde Battery (banner)



Reply to topic  [ 336 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ... 23  Next
Username Protected Message
 Post subject: Re: Cessna Denali - First Impressions
PostPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 12:23 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 06/08/12
Posts: 12587
Post Likes: +5181
Company: Mayo Clinic
Location: Rochester, MN
Aircraft: Planeless in RST
Username Protected wrote:
30 Years ago I used to occasionally fly a a family into their home in Courchevel in their B200. If you aren’t familiar with it, you can step out of the plane in your ski boots, click in and go.

But I was flying not skiing. I was thankful that their king air had an interior that was various shades of grey. When I picked them up after the weekend they trudged through all manner of dirty slush before getting in the plane. Plus they had a big dog. But cleaning it was a snap with the grey carpet and seats. It was a plane for riding in, not just for looking at.

I think about that every time I see one of these mockups that is white on white. Who wants to live with an interior like that in the real world?


Good, real world, heads up Jeff.
Reminded me of when my previous employer took delivery of their brand new, splendiferous Phenom 300. As VP sales and and service I was often the sole occupant. Felt decadent. But, and it’s a big one: if you know me, you know what a coffee snob I am. Well, no coffee or anything other than water allowed in the Phenom. I understand. Until I met Nancy, I was the same way about Red Bo. Still am about Brunhilde, our S550.
To the west coast with only Pellegrino to drink. I’m also a water snob.
Such hardship!
Good memories.

_________________
BFR 8/18; IPC 8/18


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna Denali - First Impressions
PostPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 12:55 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23615
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
Pilatus is rated #1 in corporate aircraft support for 17 consecutive years by Pro Pilot magazine survey.

AIN's product support survey agrees in the category of "newer turboprop" with a rating of 8.2 for Pilatus. King Air was not far behind at 8.0, though.

Highest aircraft overall was MU2, 9.1 rating.

In the jets, it was basically the more they cost, the better service they got.

Quote:
A manufacturer doesn't need a lot of service centers or a MSU if their products don't go AOG (often).

By that logic, you should choose the airplane type which has the fewest available service centers.

Not a good idea, IMO.

The number of MSUs and service centers is a reflection of the popularity of the type, not how often it goes AOG.

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Last edited on 19 Dec 2018, 23:01, edited 1 time in total.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna Denali - First Impressions
PostPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 17:09 
Offline


 Profile




Joined: 03/22/16
Posts: 38
Post Likes: +7
Username Protected wrote:
Working out the bugs of a new engine, and trying longer a TBO; seems like a SETP wouldn't be the best plane to try this new engine out on.

That was one of my Pilatus salesman's points when I was trying to buy a new Pilatus.... Pilatus is having a lot of growing pains with the PC24. Gotta work the bugs out. You don't want to be serial number 1 on the Denali. You're gonna want to give it a couple years of flying before buying one.

The Denali still hasn't even flown yet. Still lots to learn. Who knows when the 1st delivery will be? Could be a couple more years.


This is very true being first. Got the 1st TBM850 with the G1000 back '08 and had teething issues that took longer to resolve than a new 850 coming off the line months later. Know your partly a beta tester.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna Denali - First Impressions
PostPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 17:12 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 08/26/15
Posts: 9514
Post Likes: +8745
Company: airlines (*CRJ,A320)
Location: Florida panhandle
Aircraft: Travel Air,T-6B,etc*
Username Protected wrote:
You don't want to be serial number 1 on the Denali. You're gonna want to give it a couple years of flying before buying one.


This is very true being first. Got the 1st TBM850 with the G1000 back '08 and had teething issues that took longer to resolve than a new 850 coming off the line months later. Know your partly a beta tester.

Cessna would have to sweeten the deal on very low s/n airplanes to make up for the updates that get worked into the production line during the first couple years of production.

Sorta goes with the territory for any new airplane type or model.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna Denali - First Impressions
PostPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 17:57 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 05/03/12
Posts: 2119
Post Likes: +557
Location: Wichita, KS
Aircraft: Mooney 201
Username Protected wrote:
The Denali still hasn't even flown yet. Still lots to learn. Who knows when the 1st delivery will be? Could be a couple more years.


I'm hearing that work on it has slowed considerably as engineering has shifted to the Sky Courier since it has a lot of firm orders from FedEx. Textron Aviation has posted some engineering jobs recently as well, both contract and direct. Historically they've not used contract engineering labor (except for the Scorpion) so I find it interesting. Not sure if they've had a lot of attrition or if this might be a recovery plan to make up for the late Longitude or something else entirely...


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna Denali - First Impressions
PostPosted: 19 Dec 2018, 20:54 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 07/04/11
Posts: 1712
Post Likes: +242
Company: W. John Gadd, Esq.
Location: Florida
Aircraft: C55 Baron
Username Protected wrote:
If "plagiarism is the highest form of flattery", then Pilatus should feel really flattered by now. I'm sorry, I see zero innovation here. Maybe even less than zero. Sticking a G3000 in a carbon copy PC12 with a different brand of engine with the same horsepower, is not innovating.

But I'm sure it will sell well. The engineers and management at Cessna will just have to go to sleep every night knowing they're also-rans.



If they sell enough-they will sleep just fine.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna Denali - First Impressions
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2019, 15:40 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 09/16/10
Posts: 8885
Post Likes: +1954
Wondering how it is shaping up so I checked around for any news.
From their website....

WEIGHTS
Full Fuel Payload 1,100 lb (499 kg)
PERFORMANCE
Maximum Cruise Speed 285 ktas (519 km/h)
4 Passenger Range 1,600 nm (2,963 km)
Maximum Operating Altitude 31,000 ft (9,449 m)

Any of that very different than a PC-12?
4 passenger range, but at what airspeed?

_________________
If you think nobody cares about you. Try not paying your income tax.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna Denali - First Impressions
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2019, 16:37 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26431
Post Likes: +13064
Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
Username Protected wrote:
Wondering how it is shaping up so I checked around for any news.
From their website....

WEIGHTS
Full Fuel Payload 1,100 lb (499 kg)
PERFORMANCE
Maximum Cruise Speed 285 ktas (519 km/h)
4 Passenger Range 1,600 nm (2,963 km)
Maximum Operating Altitude 31,000 ft (9,449 m)

Any of that very different than a PC-12?
4 passenger range, but at what airspeed?

That's the same info they've had out for while. I'm starting to think they aren't going to build it. 1100Lbs is more than 4 PAX. I wonder why they're wording it that way? Are they assuming 2 fat pilots up front?

My PC12 has 1200LB Full Fuel Payload. PC12NG is a 7 hour plane (til it runs out of gas) with full fuel at 270TAS.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna Denali - First Impressions
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2019, 17:32 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 08/26/15
Posts: 9514
Post Likes: +8745
Company: airlines (*CRJ,A320)
Location: Florida panhandle
Aircraft: Travel Air,T-6B,etc*
Username Protected wrote:
Maximum Operating Altitude 31,000 ft (9,449 m)

RVSM or non-RVSM but the the machine able to climb that high comfortably?

Both are good things. RVSM is nice but even limited to below it, decent performance up to 280 or 290 shines when trying to get on top of medium height convective activity or ice. It’s also nice in any climb, with an aging workhorse that needs a little more bleed air because of a slightly leaky pressure vessel, and not having to ask for a “slow climb.”


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna Denali - First Impressions
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2019, 17:40 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26431
Post Likes: +13064
Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
Username Protected wrote:
Maximum Operating Altitude 31,000 ft (9,449 m)

RVSM or non-RVSM but the the machine able to climb that high comfortably?

Both are good things. RVSM is nice but even limited to below it, decent performance up to 280 or 290 shines when trying to get on top of medium height convective activity or ice. It’s also nice in any climb, with an aging workhorse that needs a little more bleed air because of a slightly leaky pressure vessel, and not having to ask for a “slow climb.”

PC12 is certified to FL300.

Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna Denali - First Impressions
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2019, 17:56 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 09/16/10
Posts: 8885
Post Likes: +1954
Username Protected wrote:
they assuming 2 fat pilots up front?


Hey. It's not fat. It is highly dense muscle. :lol:

_________________
If you think nobody cares about you. Try not paying your income tax.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna Denali - First Impressions
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2019, 23:31 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 07/23/09
Posts: 1067
Post Likes: +560
Location: KSJT
Aircraft: PC-24 Citabria 7GCBC
Username Protected wrote:
PERFORMANCE
Maximum Cruise Speed 285 ktas (519 km/h)
4 Passenger Range 1,600 nm (2,963 km)
Maximum Operating Altitude 31,000 ft (9,449 m)

Any of that very different than a PC-12?
4 passenger range, but at what airspeed?


No published runway performance specs anywhere I can find but word has it that takeoff performance will be much longer than the PC12. With the higher TAS, make me think they got the extra knots out of the wing.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna Denali - First Impressions
PostPosted: 11 Feb 2019, 23:56 
Offline


 WWW  Profile




Joined: 12/03/14
Posts: 19252
Post Likes: +23615
Company: Ciholas, Inc
Location: KEHR
Aircraft: C560V
Username Protected wrote:
No published runway performance specs anywhere I can find

It is claimed Cessna once said takeoff distance would be 2,950 ft, which is a bit worse than PC-12.

https://generalaviationnews.com/2016/08 ... tus-pc-12/

Real numbers require a real airplane, so who knows.

Mike C.

_________________
Email mikec (at) ciholas.com


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna Denali - First Impressions
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2019, 10:07 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 11/08/12
Posts: 12798
Post Likes: +5224
Location: Jackson, MS (KHKS)
Aircraft: 1961 Cessna 172
There's no free lunch.

PC12 does great for people who want to forklift load pallets and land at their farm. A faster and/or cheaper wing that's suited for 3000' strips probably has a market.


Top

 Post subject: Re: Cessna Denali - First Impressions
PostPosted: 12 Feb 2019, 10:29 
Offline


User avatar
 Profile




Joined: 01/29/08
Posts: 26431
Post Likes: +13064
Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
Username Protected wrote:
PERFORMANCE
Maximum Cruise Speed 285 ktas (519 km/h)
4 Passenger Range 1,600 nm (2,963 km)
Maximum Operating Altitude 31,000 ft (9,449 m)

Any of that very different than a PC-12?
4 passenger range, but at what airspeed?


No published runway performance specs anywhere I can find but word has it that takeoff performance will be much longer than the PC12. With the higher TAS, make me think they got the extra knots out of the wing.

285 isn't higher TAS. PC12 literature says 285TAS also. All we have from Cessna is words on a piece of paper.

But it does give me hope they're lying and it will be over 300TAS. I would trade runway for higher TAS.

At this point is Cessna waiting on GE or is GE waiting on Cessna? I think Cessna is selling a lot of jets right now. I wouldn't be surprised if the Denali has been back burnered.

Top

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic  [ 336 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ... 23  Next




You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

Terms of Service | Forum FAQ | Contact Us

BeechTalk, LLC is the quintessential Beechcraft Owners & Pilots Group providing a forum for the discussion of technical, practical, and entertaining issues relating to all Beech aircraft. These include the Bonanza (both V-tail and straight-tail models), Baron, Debonair, Duke, Twin Bonanza, King Air, Sierra, Skipper, Sport, Sundowner, Musketeer, Travel Air, Starship, Queen Air, BeechJet, and Premier lines of airplanes, turboprops, and turbojets.

BeechTalk, LLC is not affiliated or endorsed by the Beechcraft Corporation, its subsidiaries, or affiliates. Beechcraft™, King Air™, and Travel Air™ are the registered trademarks of the Beechcraft Corporation.

Copyright© BeechTalk, LLC 2007-2024

.sierratrax-85x50.png.
.tat-85x100.png.
.geebee-85x50.jpg.
.Latitude.jpg.
.camguard.jpg.
.concorde.jpg.
.shortnnumbers-85x100.png.
.ssv-85x50-2023-12-17.jpg.
.one-mile-up-85x100.png.
.AAI.jpg.
.gallagher_85x50.jpg.
.temple-85x100-2015-02-23.jpg.
.kadex-85x50.jpg.
.saint-85x50.jpg.
.Genesys_85x50.jpg.
.planelogix-85x100-2015-04-15.jpg.
.ei-85x150.jpg.
.Marsh.jpg.
.midwest2.jpg.
.MountainAirframe.jpg.
.SCA.jpg.
.pdi-85x50.jpg.
.bullardaviation-85x50-2.jpg.
.aircraftferry-85x50.jpg.
.dbm.jpg.
.traceaviation-85x150.png.
.lucysaviation-85x50.png.
.Wingman 85x50.png.
.ABS-85x100.jpg.
.kingairnation-85x50.png.
.boomerang-85x50-2023-12-17.png.
.aircraftassociates-85x50.png.
.aviationdesigndouble.jpg.
.stanmusikame-85x50.jpg.
.airmart-85x150.png.
.aeroled-85x50-2022-12-06.jpg.
.Wentworth_85x100.JPG.
.headsetsetc_Small_85x50.jpg.
.pure-medical-85x150.png.
.cav-85x50.jpg.
.avfab-85x50-2018-12-04.png.
.wilco-85x100.png.
.bpt-85x50-2019-07-27.jpg.
.CiESVer2.jpg.
.chairmanaviation-85x50.jpg.
.wat-85x50.jpg.
.Foreflight_85x50_color.png.
.avionwealth-85x50.png.
.jandsaviation-85x50.jpg.
.blackhawk-85x100-2019-09-25.jpg.
.Rocky-Mountain-Turbine-85x100.jpg.
.kingairacademy-85x100.png.
.tempest.jpg.
.jetacq-85x50.jpg.
.blackwell-85x50.png.
.daytona.jpg.
.centex-85x50.jpg.