Exactly my point. And any of those that that affect airworthiness require FAA approval. The FAA is very clear that RVSM operation must have airworthiness approval, in addition to operational approval.

Quote where that is written.

Mike C.

Quote where that is written.

Mike C.

Quote the exact passage.

Chapter 4 says the operator determines this under section 9:

"Operators and pilots seeking to operate in RVSM airspace under the provisions of part 91 appendix G, section 9 are not required to apply for authorizations. The operator or pilot needs to ensure all applicable requirements in part 91 appendix G to operate in RVSM airspace are met."

There's no "approval" in that chapter that I see.

Mike C.

Terry,

Help me out here. Which part of the FARs do you think I violated or which part of the AC do you think wasn't followed correctly? I'm not trying to convince you I'm right, but I'm truly interested in knowing where I may have done it wrong.

The clip you put up earlier wasn't from the AC or the FARs - it was from a FAQ, and it was from a section about experimental aircraft.

My airframe is listed on an FAA document that says "All Aircraft present in this segment of the database have obtained RVSM Airworthiness approval." If I didn't get there correctly, I'd like to know how to do it right.

You are right, that FAQ question mentions experimental, but they are just reiterating the same rules that apply to Part 23/25 aircraft.

Which airframe? The NAARMO report is just assuming that you followed the rules and you are part of a group. They don't check to see that you actually did.

Quote the exact passage.

Chapter 4 says the operator determines this under section 9:

"Operators and pilots seeking to operate in RVSM airspace under the provisions of part 91 appendix G, section 9 are not required to apply for authorizations. The operator or pilot needs to ensure all applicable requirements in part 91 appendix G to operate in RVSM airspace are met."

There's no "approval" in that chapter that I see.

Mike C.

And Chapter 2 says:

"2.2.1 Aircraft may be produced RVSM-compliant or brought into compliance through the application of appropriate Service Bulletins (SB), Service Letters (SL), Engineering Change Orders (EO), or Supplemental Type Certificates (STC). For airworthiness guidance, see Appendix A, RVSM Airworthiness Certification.

2.2.2 To determine eligibility for RVSM operations, the limitations section of the Airplane Flight Manual (AFM) or AFM Supplement (AFMS) should indicate the aircraft has been determined to be capable of meeting the RVSM performance requirements of 14 CFR part 91 appendix G."

Is your specific tail number on that list, or just the same “airframe” ?

Tail number and serial number.

Tail number and serial number.

In Jim's case, what about this section from AC 91-85B for group approval planes:

A.3.1.4

4. The avionics units installed on each aircraft to meet the minimum RVSM
equipment requirements (see paragraph A.4) should be manufactured to the
manufacturer’s same specification, and have the same equipment part number
and software part number (or version and revision).
Note: Aircraft which have avionics units which are of a different
manufacturer or equipment part number, software part number (or version and
revision) may be considered part of the Group if the applicant demonstrates to
the appropriate FAA office this standard of avionic eq

How do you go about demonstrating the standard to the FAA office? Seems like a NAARMO altitude monitoring test may suffice? Doesn't give much color here

Terry, I think he was in a King Air 200. Regardless, almost all of them have a group approval. I think one question is if it's still considered in the group since avionics and AP have changed.

BE20s and BE30s are in Category 2 group approvals in this document. I understand that to mean as long as enough (60%) of them are monitored in a 2 year period, the group approval is valid

Terry, I think he was in a King Air 200. Regardless, almost all of them have a group approval. I think one question is if it's still considered in the group since avionics and AP have changed.

BE20s and BE30s are in Category 2 group approvals in this document. I understand that to mean as long as enough (60%) of them are monitored in a 2 year period, the group approval is valid

Tail number and serial number.