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 Post subject: Re: My Cessna 425 Conquest I
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2018, 00:11 
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My 421C has 1200 pounds of pay load with full fuel.


And a negative climb rate in any real world conditions loaded to gross when one quits on take off. 425 will actually fly away on one loaded to gross in most cases, a Blackhawk 425 will flyaway at gross from pretty much anywhere lower than Leadville. That's the difference. Piston twin gross weight, especially when brought up with VGs and other tricks, is deceiving. My 414A was a wonderful, safe aircraft. In flat lands, when 500lb under gross. It was a great 4 person machine for short 300nm hops. Don't break out the charts. I know them well enough to never get into a loaded up piston twin.


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 Post subject: Re: My Cessna 425 Conquest I
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2018, 00:26 
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Joined: 05/31/13
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Company: Docking Drawer
Location: KCCR
Aircraft: C425
441CR looks pretty nice. 2 new windscreens, electric torque, and fresh hots. That right there is like $125K worth of work.

Jeff R, didn't you call about this one?

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 Post subject: Re: My Cessna 425 Conquest I
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2018, 00:42 
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Location: Concord , CA (KCCR)
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Username Protected wrote:
My 421C has 1200 pounds of pay load with full fuel.


And a negative climb rate in any real world conditions loaded to gross when one quits on take off. 425 will actually fly away on one loaded to gross in most cases, a Blackhawk 425 will flyaway at gross from pretty much anywhere lower than Leadville. That's the difference. Piston twin gross weight, especially when brought up with VGs and other tricks, is deceiving. My 414A was a wonderful, safe aircraft. In flat lands, when 500lb under gross. It was a great 4 person machine for short 300nm hops. Don't break out the charts. I know them well enough to never get into a loaded up piston twin.


True, but the same applies to almost all piston twins. When I am at GW I use long runways with few obstacles in the direction of the departure. Once I get past 1,000 feet AGL I can turn around and return in most cases. 90% of the time I am under GW with 2 to 4 people and baggage. There is nothing better than two well maintained engines and in 1,243 take off’s and landings I have not had and engine failure but I always plan for it.

Very few twin accidents are caused from losing and engine on take off. Most twin accidents ( including turbines) are in other phases of flight.

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 Post subject: Re: My Cessna 425 Conquest I
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2018, 00:44 
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Username Protected wrote:
441CR looks pretty nice. 2 new windscreens, electric torque, and fresh hots. That right there is like $125K worth of work.

Jeff R, didn't you call about this one?


I believe it’s sold


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 Post subject: Re: My Cessna 425 Conquest I
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2018, 10:12 
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Username Protected wrote:
And a negative climb rate in any real world conditions loaded to gross when one quits on take off. 425 will actually fly away on one loaded to gross in most cases, a Blackhawk 425 will flyaway at gross from pretty much anywhere lower than Leadville. That's the difference. Piston twin gross weight, especially when brought up with VGs and other tricks, is deceiving. My 414A was a wonderful, safe aircraft. In flat lands, when 500lb under gross. It was a great 4 person machine for short 300nm hops. Don't break out the charts. I know them well enough to never get into a loaded up piston twin.


It's disappointing that we've turned this thread into a 421 v 425 thread, so let me state this first: there is no doubt that the 425 is a superior airplane! More HP always makes for a better plane, and that's one reason why the 425 is better than the 421 and the 421 is better than the 414 (and the T28 vs the T6 ;).

However, sorry Rick, but I can't stand by idly while the 421 is bashed. Mine also has just under 1200 lbs available when the mains are filled. The VGs only ad 129lbs of payload, so not a huge increase.

From experience, the plane handles quite well at max gross and climbs easily to the low 20s. It also handles very well on one engine with no drama, even when heavy.

Would I rather have turbines with auto feather on takeoff? Sure. Who wouldn't?! However, if you're going to burn AvGas, the 421 is damn hard to beat.

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: My Cessna 425 Conquest I
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2018, 10:46 
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I don’t have the charts in front of me, but I remember a C90 and a Conquest I, both have close to Zero SE ROC when the DA is high.

At sea level and gross weight the SE ROC is about the same for the 425 and 421. 350 and 357 FPM


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 Post subject: Re: My Cessna 425 Conquest I
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2018, 11:48 
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Username Protected wrote:
441CR looks pretty nice. 2 new windscreens, electric torque, and fresh hots. That right there is like $125K worth of work.

Jeff R, didn't you call about this one?


Scott,

I don't recall the story on this plane but I it's been on the market a long time...

Jeff


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 Post subject: Re: My Cessna 425 Conquest I
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2018, 13:42 
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Username Protected wrote:
And a negative climb rate in any real world conditions loaded to gross when one quits on take off. 425 will actually fly away on one loaded to gross in most cases, a Blackhawk 425 will flyaway at gross from pretty much anywhere lower than Leadville. That's the difference. Piston twin gross weight, especially when brought up with VGs and other tricks, is deceiving. My 414A was a wonderful, safe aircraft. In flat lands, when 500lb under gross. It was a great 4 person machine for short 300nm hops. Don't break out the charts. I know them well enough to never get into a loaded up piston twin.


It's disappointing that we've turned this thread into a 421 v 425 thread, so let me state this first: there is no doubt that the 425 is a superior airplane! More HP always makes for a better plane, and that's one reason why the 425 is better than the 421 and the 421 is better than the 414 (and the T28 vs the T6 ;).

However, sorry Rick, but I can't stand by idly while the 421 is bashed. Mine also has just under 1200 lbs available when the mains are filled. The VGs only ad 129lbs of payload, so not a huge increase.

From experience, the plane handles quite well at max gross and climbs easily to the low 20s. It also handles very well on one engine with no drama, even when heavy.

Would I rather have turbines with auto feather on takeoff? Sure. Who wouldn't?! However, if you're going to burn AvGas, the 421 is damn hard to beat.

Robert


I agree Robert, and have a sincere appreciation for 414A/421 design having owned one a few years. I loved flying my 414A, and was amazed how comfortable life was flying that plane. I would never knock either plane if it works for your mission. Kudos to Cessna for making it happen - they really did an impressive job engineering these birds.

Jeff

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 Post subject: Re: My Cessna 425 Conquest I
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2018, 14:50 
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Company: Docking Drawer
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Quote:
At sea level and gross weight the SE ROC is about the same for the 425 and 421. 350 and 357 FPM

According to my book anyway, the 425 OEI ROC is 390 fpm @ max gross @ SL @ ISA+0 and 220 fpm @ 6000' @ max gross @ ISA+26 (30 deg C)

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 Post subject: Re: My Cessna 425 Conquest I
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2018, 15:30 
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Joined: 01/24/10
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Location: Concord , CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1967 Baron B55
This is what I used.

Cessna 425 Conquest I - Performance Data

Horsepower: 450 Gross Weight: 8600 lbs
Top Speed: 263 kts Empty Weight: 4948 lbs
Cruise Speed: kts Fuel Capacity: 366 gal
Stall Speed (dirty): 84 kts Range: 1248 nm

Takeoff Landing
Ground Roll: 2170 ft Ground Roll 955 ft
Over 50 ft obstacle: 2490 ft Over 50 ft obstacle: 2150 ft

Rate Of Climb: 1861 fpm Rate of Climb (One Engine): 357 fpm
Ceiling: 33400 ft Ceiling (One Engine): 17200 ft


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 Post subject: Re: My Cessna 425 Conquest I
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2018, 15:35 
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Joined: 02/17/14
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Location: Chicago, IL
Aircraft: 1981 421C
Username Protected wrote:
O, and, another (and potentially bigger) problem is finding a good example to buy! Currently only a handful for sale on Controller, I think 9 at last count. Of those 9, 2-3 are phony adds that the broker has up but doesn't actually have for sale.

Can a potential buyer expect to have a long wait or are off-market deals more common compared to its piston brethren?

Anyone know if this plane is one of the phony ones? Or a sub-standard example?

https://www.controller.com/listings/air ... conquest-i


Definitely check for your self but I believe I remember there were 2 of them from that broker that when we called, they said they didn't have any Conquests available. Not 100% that was one of them though. Pisses me off when they try to do the bait and hook.

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 Post subject: Re: My Cessna 425 Conquest I
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2018, 22:14 
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Joined: 07/05/11
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Location: York, PA (KTHV)
Aircraft: 2006 C90GT
Username Protected wrote:
Quote:
At sea level and gross weight the SE ROC is about the same for the 425 and 421. 350 and 357 FPM

According to my book anyway, the 425 OEI ROC is 390 fpm @ max gross @ SL @ ISA+0 and 220 fpm @ 6000' @ max gross @ ISA+26 (30 deg C)


FWIW My C90 GT AFM says 480 fpm OEI ROC at max gross SL ISA and 320 fpm @ 6000’ max gross 30 degrees C.


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 Post subject: Re: My Cessna 425 Conquest I
PostPosted: 05 Dec 2018, 22:53 
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Tim I was comparing a stock C90? Doesn’t the GT have -135 engines?
A stock C90 has less climb performance.


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 Post subject: Re: My Cessna 425 Conquest I
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2018, 00:54 
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Company: Docking Drawer
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Quote:
A stock C90 has less climb performance.

Doesn't a C90 GT have the same HP rating as earlier models with the -21 engines? If so, then why would it have better performance at sea level? A -21 airplane and a -135 airplane should have the same performance until the -21 temps out and the -135 is still able to make full torque.

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 Post subject: Re: My Cessna 425 Conquest I
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2018, 01:03 
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no I think the 135 is 750eshp and the 21 is 550.

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