BeechTalk - BT

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2018, 08:58

I think when you buy a NetJets share you own a % of a new plane. I think the business model is about "selling the old and buying new".

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2018, 16:12

Username Protected wrote:

YMMV
I have friends in Netjets that ask me about buying a jet. I tell them "If I weren't a pilot, I wouldn't own a plane". They don't speak the language. Buying an old Falcon and trusting your crew to tell you the truth about what's going on is a step of trust too far for me. I've seen too many problems.... recently too.

With respect to that Falcon20 flight. That was out of MMEX right?

You made some comment about it being "flat". (correct me if I am wrong)

Mexico City is surrounded by high terrain with second segment climb restrictions. If this was an old CF-700 powered DA-20 it would have been pretty limited. It sounds like the crew was being straightforward.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2018, 16:15

Could be. Would have been a non factor in my PC12. Home in 3.5 hours.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2018, 17:21

Username Protected wrote:

My hangar neighbor offered to rent his Vision jet out for $1,100/hr plus fuel. There is also a local SF50 instrutor available.

A fun as it sounds, I just don't think I can make sense of it for me.

That would be nice to pack the family in the back, take a flight around the Stratovolcanoes in the SF-50, and put 2-3 hours in the log book.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2018, 17:39

Username Protected wrote:

What’s an “international charge”?

MYAM isn’t that far from GSO. Sounds about right.

PDK charter outfit bills their PC12 at $1650 an hour plus pilot of $850 a day. 2.5 hours each way to MYAM from ATL. Then go pick them up again. So it’s 4 flights total. I think your $12k was “each way”. So $24k total.

I had to go back and look at it. It was $14k round trip.

Revenue flight fee 5:18 pax hour @ $1,350 $7,155.00
Fuel surcharge 5:18 hour @ $135 $715.50
International per trip fee 1 intl trip @ $1,500 $1,500.00
Crew Expenses 4 day @ $900 $3,600.00
FBO Fees / Parking 1 trip @ $200 $200.00
Tax $13,170.50 @ 7.50% $987.79
Int'l Facilities Fees 8 pax departure @ $18 $144.00
Total $14,302.29

Username Protected · **Posted:** 29 Nov 2018, 20:41

Username Protected wrote:

I had to go back and look at it. It was $14k round trip.

Revenue flight fee 5:18 pax hour @ $1,350 $7,155.00
Fuel surcharge 5:18 hour @ $135 $715.50
International per trip fee 1 intl trip @ $1,500 $1,500.00
Crew Expenses 4 day @ $900 $3,600.00
FBO Fees / Parking 1 trip @ $200 $200.00
Tax $13,170.50 @ 7.50% $987.79
Int'l Facilities Fees 8 pax departure @ $18 $144.00
Total $14,302.29

Gotcha. So the crew was sticking around.... no dead legs. I think that's reasonable and in line with a $6K SR22 flight of 250NM each leg. I'd guess GSO to MYAM is in the 500NM range per leg.

The "international trip fee" is funny. It doesn't cost anything to fly to MYAM but I'd charge it too. Also, 5:18 hours can easily turn into 6:30 dealing with the Bahamas and S Florida ATC. Especially IFR both ways. The quote and the final bill are 2 different things.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Nov 2018, 01:23

Username Protected wrote:

It looks like they will be running a Part 134.5 operation under the guise of "flight Instruction". I think it might be pretty successful if the dry rate is under $1000 an hour.

It would be 134.5 if they would put a non-pilot in the front seat and pretend to give "instruction". With the pax being a qualified pilot, it should be a non-issue. Any FBO will gladly give you an instructor to fly with you anywhere you want if you are not checked out in the plane.

It gets more interesting if the flight is one way, though - i.e. instructor drops you off and comes back to get you later.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Nov 2018, 08:41

Username Protected wrote:

I had to go back and look at it. It was $14k round trip.

Revenue flight fee 5:18 pax hour @ $1,350 $7,155.00
Fuel surcharge 5:18 hour @ $135 $715.50
International per trip fee 1 intl trip @ $1,500 $1,500.00
Crew Expenses 4 day @ $900 $3,600.00
FBO Fees / Parking 1 trip @ $200 $200.00
Tax $13,170.50 @ 7.50% $987.79
Int'l Facilities Fees 8 pax departure @ $18 $144.00
Total $14,302.29

Gotcha. So the crew was sticking around.... no dead legs. I think that's reasonable and in line with a $6K SR22 flight of 250NM each leg. I'd guess GSO to MYAM is in the 500NM range per leg.

The "international trip fee" is funny. It doesn't cost anything to fly to MYAM but I'd charge it too. Also, 5:18 hours can easily turn into 6:30 dealing with the Bahamas and S Florida ATC. Especially IFR both ways. The quote and the final bill are 2 different things.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Nov 2018, 08:45

Sales tax on labor?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Nov 2018, 08:46

Sales tax on labor? Is that the norm in your state?

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Nov 2018, 09:08

Username Protected wrote:

It looks like they will be running a Part 134.5 operation under the guise of "flight Instruction". I think it might be pretty successful if the dry rate is under $1000 an hour.

It would be 134.5 if they would put a non-pilot in the front seat and pretend to give "instruction". With the pax being a qualified pilot, it should be a non-issue. Any FBO will gladly give you an instructor to fly with you anywhere you want if you are not checked out in the plane.

It gets more interesting if the flight is one way, though - i.e. instructor drops you off and comes back to get you later.

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Nov 2018, 14:23

Username Protected wrote:

Sales tax on labor?

people will get away with whatever they can until they're caught

car dealership yesterday tried to roll the tax of the entire sticker price of the car into a lease option, promptly walked out

Username Protected · **Posted:** 30 Nov 2018, 16:24

Username Protected wrote:

One pilot or two? I don’t understand how you pay pilots, provide hotel and meals and taxi rides for 3600$ I guess this quote is 3 night trip.

What we did was paid the crew a daily rate. PIC was $550 per day and SIC $450 in the Citation II. Also paid meals, transportation and flight home or hotel. We usually flew them home each day, but on short trips like this where connections aren't great, they may stay. We just asked charges be reasonable. No McDonalds, but don't over do it. Put them in a hotel comparable to ours or Marriott type place. All negotiable, but if you want good folks, you need to be reasonable. Right now, crews have a lot of options.