28 Mar 2024, 11:45 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Off Market Aircraft Posted: 27 Nov 2018, 22:42 |
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Joined: 10/03/16 Posts: 270 Post Likes: +181 Location: Chicagoland
Aircraft: Mooney Acclaim
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Username Protected wrote: Anyone have any tips on how a regular-joe can purchase an aircraft off-market? This company appears to be for very high-end turboprops/jets. What about the piston markets? If you’re associated with a flight school or have a good relationship with an A&P, make sure they know what you’re looking for.
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Post subject: Re: Off Market Aircraft Posted: 28 Nov 2018, 11:05 |
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Joined: 01/05/11 Posts: 314 Post Likes: +226
Aircraft: 1969 Aerostar 600,
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What are you looking for?
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Post subject: Re: Off Market Aircraft Posted: 28 Nov 2018, 12:29 |
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Joined: 06/02/10 Posts: 7236 Post Likes: +4509 Company: Inscrutable Fasteners, LLC Location: West Palm Beach - F45
Aircraft: Planeless
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Username Protected wrote: Anyone have any tips on how a regular-joe can purchase an aircraft off-market? This company appears to be for very high-end turboprops/jets. What about the piston markets? Hang out at the airport and get to know all your hangar neighbors well (grapevine), drop off your card at any nice planes you see on the ramp you may be interested in, etc.
This only works if you’re already “inside the fence”. Having been there, the word of mouth thing only works if you are already part of a community.
Best, Rich
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Post subject: Re: Off Market Aircraft Posted: 30 Nov 2018, 17:55 |
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Joined: 06/25/08 Posts: 5628 Post Likes: +511 Company: Latitude Aviation Location: Los Angeles, CA (KTOA)
Aircraft: 2007 Bonanza G36
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Username Protected wrote: Hey Chip,
Greetings from New Braunfels. When I purchase an aircraft I try to avoid those owned by brokers due to the Occasional Sale exemption. Do you know of a way to avoid that?
John John, If you are trying to avail yourself of Texas' occasional sale exemption you not only need to avoid buying aircraft owned by brokers for inventory but also aircraft owned by sellers who have sales tax permits and are leasing the aircraft back to other entities. Those sellers are likely taking advantage of the "sale for resale" exemption and paying/charging sales tax on an hourly basis when they lease/rent their aircraft back to other entities. The "test" in Texas for an occasional sale is that the seller can't have a sales tax permit as the form requires a seller to sign the form and check the box that they don't have a sales tax permit in Texas (or any other state). So while a seller may not be an aircraft dealer/broker by trade they will be viewed as a retailer by the Texas Comptroller's office if they have a sales tax (resale) permit and are charging sales tax to any entity that is leasing or renting the aircraft. -Neal
_________________ Latitude Aviation Specializing in sales/acquisitions services for Bonanzas, Barons, and TBM's
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Post subject: Re: Off Market Aircraft Posted: 30 Nov 2018, 22:32 |
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Joined: 07/10/10 Posts: 937 Post Likes: +620 Location: New Braunfels, TX
Aircraft: Conquest
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Username Protected wrote: If you are trying to avail yourself of Texas' occasional sale exemption you not only need to avoid buying aircraft owned by brokers for inventory but also aircraft owned by sellers who have sales tax permits and are leasing the aircraft back to other entities. Those sellers are likely taking advantage of the "sale for resale" exemption and paying/charging sales tax on an hourly basis when they lease/rent their aircraft back to other entities. The "test" in Texas for an occasional sale is that the seller can't have a sales tax permit as the form requires a seller to sign the form and check the box that they don't have a sales tax permit in Texas (or any other state). So while a seller may not be an aircraft dealer/broker by trade they will be viewed as a retailer by the Texas Comptroller's office if they have a sales tax (resale) permit and are charging sales tax to any entity that is leasing or renting the aircraft. Yes, you’re correct and obviously familiar with the tax snares of Texas. I got hit on the purchase of a Champ years ago and learned an expensive lesson. Since then I’ve become thoroughly familiar with the law myself. Texas has a reputation as a low-tax state but I could give plenty of examples of why that’s not true.
_________________ ----Still emotionally attached to my Baron----
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Post subject: Re: Off Market Aircraft Posted: 01 Dec 2018, 00:23 |
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Joined: 10/03/16 Posts: 270 Post Likes: +181 Location: Chicagoland
Aircraft: Mooney Acclaim
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Username Protected wrote: If you are trying to avail yourself of Texas' occasional sale exemption you not only need to avoid buying aircraft owned by brokers for inventory but also aircraft owned by sellers who have sales tax permits and are leasing the aircraft back to other entities. Those sellers are likely taking advantage of the "sale for resale" exemption and paying/charging sales tax on an hourly basis when they lease/rent their aircraft back to other entities. The "test" in Texas for an occasional sale is that the seller can't have a sales tax permit as the form requires a seller to sign the form and check the box that they don't have a sales tax permit in Texas (or any other state). So while a seller may not be an aircraft dealer/broker by trade they will be viewed as a retailer by the Texas Comptroller's office if they have a sales tax (resale) permit and are charging sales tax to any entity that is leasing or renting the aircraft. Yes, you’re correct and obviously familiar with the tax snares of Texas. I got hit on the purchase of a Champ years ago and learned an expensive lesson. Since then I’ve become thoroughly familiar with the law myself. Texas has a reputation as a low-tax state but I could give plenty of examples of why that’s not true.
Illinois is really awesome (in the true meaning of the word) here. Buy and base in Illinois without paying use tax? If the catch you, it’s treble damages. And I’ve heard that there are rewards for dropping a dime on violators.
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Post subject: Re: Off Market Aircraft Posted: 01 Dec 2018, 12:02 |
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Joined: 03/06/15 Posts: 499 Post Likes: +417 Company: Michael Dunlevie PC Location: Eagle, CO
Aircraft: 1960 M35
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Username Protected wrote: Anyone have any tips on how a regular-joe can purchase an aircraft off-market? This company appears to be for very high-end turboprops/jets. What about the piston markets? Join the type club for the aircraft model you are targeting. If multiple targets, multiple type clubs. Join your state flying association and any regional chapters available. If you have picked the mechanic that will maintain your plane after purchase, take him/her to lunch, with other pilots as available. This puts you "inside the fence" talking to owners and mechanics who know what is coming up for sale, and what's to avoid or chase.
_________________ Michael
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Post subject: Re: Off Market Aircraft Posted: 01 Dec 2018, 21:57 |
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Joined: 05/23/13 Posts: 6715 Post Likes: +7251 Company: Jet Acquisitions Location: Franklin, TN 615-739-9091 chip@jetacq.com
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Username Protected wrote: Chip,
Since you work exclusively in acquisitions and are scouring availability, what are most sought after models right now, and which models are the most difficult to find? Any later model Citation, especially CJ2, 2+, 3, 3+... as well as Excel, XLS, XLS+ Even some of the legacy airplanes are hot, we had a heck of a time finding a buy on an Ultra. Nice late model King Air 90s and B200’s with Garmin panels are hard to come by. The King Air 300 market did have several opportunities, but between us and others capitalizing on them that market is really tight now. The late-model King Air 350 market has softened a little bit but was red hot earlier this year. The TBM market is very tight especially the 700C2. PC12 market is always tight. Anything made by Embraer. The Challenger 300 market is very tight, we are preparing for an acquisition next year and know that finding an airplane that can be bought right will be a challenge.
_________________ It’s a brave new world, one where most have forgotten the old ways.
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Post subject: Re: Off Market Aircraft Posted: 10 Dec 2018, 16:12 |
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Joined: 02/23/08 Posts: 6302 Post Likes: +8869 Company: Schulte Booth, P.C. Location: Easton, MD (KESN)
Aircraft: 1958 Bonanza 35
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Username Protected wrote: Buy and base in Illinois without paying use tax? If the catch you, it’s treble damages. And I’ve heard that there are rewards for dropping a dime on violators. How Soviet of them.
_________________ - As God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.
Robert D. Schulte http://www.schultebooth.com
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Post subject: Re: Off Market Aircraft Posted: 16 Dec 2018, 19:20 |
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Joined: 10/20/17 Posts: 1055 Post Likes: +146 Location: Fort Worth, TX (KFWS)
Aircraft: 1971 Bonanza A36
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Username Protected wrote: Hey Chip,
Greetings from New Braunfels. When I purchase an aircraft I try to avoid those owned by brokers due to the Occasional Sale exemption. Do you know of a way to avoid that?
John John, If you are trying to avail yourself of Texas' occasional sale exemption you not only need to avoid buying aircraft owned by brokers for inventory but also aircraft owned by sellers who have sales tax permits and are leasing the aircraft back to other entities. Those sellers are likely taking advantage of the "sale for resale" exemption and paying/charging sales tax on an hourly basis when they lease/rent their aircraft back to other entities. The "test" in Texas for an occasional sale is that the seller can't have a sales tax permit as the form requires a seller to sign the form and check the box that they don't have a sales tax permit in Texas (or any other state). So while a seller may not be an aircraft dealer/broker by trade they will be viewed as a retailer by the Texas Comptroller's office if they have a sales tax (resale) permit and are charging sales tax to any entity that is leasing or renting the aircraft. -Neal Neal,
Excellent synopsis. Once again - here’s an example of you helping out the community pro bono. Hope this info helps one of my fellow Texans.
_________________ Check six.
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