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02 Jul 2020, 02:38 [ UTC - 5; DST ]





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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Epic LT
PostPosted: 20 Mar 2020, 22:42 
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Heard today that Epic laid everyone off this week.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Epic LT
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2020, 13:36 
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Unfortunately, that's the case. Details can be found here: https://ktvz.com/money/2020/03/20/bends ... urbulence/

Apparently the FAA has pulled back from reviewing the finished aircraft necessary to get the production type certificate; the company decided to furlough 300 people and keep a skeleton crew until the FAA gets back in the swing. Can't generate revenue without the ability to produce the aircraft in quantity. Hopefully the can weather the storm - I like the airplane.


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Epic LT
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2020, 13:40 
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Man, that's terrible news. Those guys can't catch a break. They're owned by same group that owns S7 airlines and MROs in Russia--those can't be doing well right now either. What a curveball


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Epic LT
PostPosted: 22 Mar 2020, 12:09 
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Company: Wings Insurance
Location: Eden Prairie, MN / Scottsdale, AZ
Aircraft: 2016 Cirrus SR22 G5
Not to make matters worse …but….The insurance market options for the E1000 are very very limited. As such anyone considering a position should be speaking with their insurance broker before they get too far down the path on a decision. Essentially only two underwriting companies at present will quote standalone single-ship policies as an owner/pilot would carry (pleasure and business use). The Epic LT has the same two options as well with approximately 40 ships insured worldwide. I just recently explored coverages for an early s/n prospect on an E1000 who was coming from an M500. Only two underwriting companies would consider quoting it (Great American and IAT) - and their premium tables were substantially higher than the rates he was accustomed to on the M500 (adjusted for approx. $1m variance in hull value). Premiums were 2.5 to 3X what he was paying on the M500.

Epic is going to face a daunting insurance obstacle as premiums for a $3m E1000 are going to be significantly higher than a comparable $3m TBM or $3m M600. The bottom line is similar class products from Socata, Piper etc (pre-owned in some cases to meet the $3m valuation) have a much broader underwriting market acceptance.

Frankly I don't see the Epic insurance landscape improving in the near future and until there is a significant amount of their production product in the insurance premium pool yielding very positive loss ratios for the carriers. Obviously it took a mountain of money and time to certify the E1000 so hopefully the latest setback coupled with the less than favorable insurance market acceptance won't railroad an otherwise great product.

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Tom Hauge
Wings Insurance
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E-mail: thauge@wingsinsurance.com


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Epic LT
PostPosted: 22 Mar 2020, 12:48 
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Interestingly, the Epic shut down and restarted within less than 10 minutes (seemed closer to 5). Do the Epics not have hot-start concerns for some reason?

hK


Carl, you should be able to restart in Meridian in 10 or even five minutes after shut down. You may need to use a dry motor technique, to bring the temps below 200, preferably 150, but it should start just fine With a good battery and proper fuel flows. Another reason to upgrade to that M600, Is that with the new Woodward FCU, you can start up right after shutdown, and not exceed. I see starts as low as 635° with a cool engine. About 130-150 cooler than my old M500 or even my last M600 with the old style FCU. ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Epic LT
PostPosted: 22 Mar 2020, 16:37 
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Tom, we shopped for King Air 350 insurance last month and had (what I think is) a bad outcome with respect to availability and liability limits. Only two underwriters came back to us from something like 10.

It's a transition plane for us (no experience in type), but pilots are normal bill of health 2500+ hour ATPs. Some with not much ME turbine time, but still--hosed on our premium and lack of coverage.


Don't think this is a fun time for anyone transitioning, no matter the type. Can't imagine what it'd be like with write ups, prior claims, or any other dings


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Epic LT
PostPosted: 22 Mar 2020, 17:04 
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Aircraft: 2016 Cirrus SR22 G5
Username Protected wrote:
Tom, we shopped for King Air 350 insurance last month and had (what I think is) a bad outcome with respect to availability and liability limits. Only two underwriters came back to us from something like 10.

It's a transition plane for us (no experience in type), but pilots are normal bill of health 2500+ hour ATPs. Some with not much ME turbine time, but still--hosed on our premium and lack of coverage.


Don't think this is a fun time for anyone transitioning, no matter the type. Can't imagine what it'd be like with write ups, prior claims, or any other dings


You are right - turbine transition insurance is tight but under $2m hull or thereabouts still remains decent capacity for 'reasonable' premiums.

The 350 is a little apple and orange with the Epic - twice the pax seats and type rating requirements. The insurers generally want to see 3000-4000 total time and 500-1000 turbine experience to garner more market interest in quoting a KA350 single-pilot. The KA is also not usually owner/flown - versus an Epic which is likely more than 50 percent 'owner/flown' - 1/2 the seating (ie passenger liability exposure) and for the LT all under $2m valuation. Most of those 10 markets you reference insure King Air 350's - just perhaps weren't interested in quoting your submission for one reason or another. The point being there are only 2 insurers in TOTAL quoting Epic's right now - 2 that's it regardless of if you are astronaut qualified :)

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Tom Hauge
Wings Insurance
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E-mail: thauge@wingsinsurance.com


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Epic LT
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2020, 13:13 
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Tom (and Wings in general) knows what he is talking about. We just had Ryan Konrath at Wings help us get a renewal for our M600; we got a nice reduction (you heard me right) from last year's premium at the same limits and were able to get smooth coverage vs sublimits. But our hull value is just over $2 mm on our 2016 bird. And last year was our transition year/first year in a turbine and retract, both pilots on the policy are between 600-800 TT; the transition year is typically higher. Still it was nice to see that number go down ... but unfortunately, the other issue is liability limits.

I appreciate the insight into the Epic vs other SETP airframes in this insurance market. Love the plane and hope they can get everything back together.

The folks at Wings are superstars in my book - highly recommended!


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Epic LT
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2020, 14:01 
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Company: Wings Insurance
Location: Eden Prairie, MN / Scottsdale, AZ
Aircraft: 2016 Cirrus SR22 G5
Username Protected wrote:
Tom (and Wings in general) knows what he is talking about. We just had Ryan Konrath at Wings help us get a renewal for our M600; we got a nice reduction (you heard me right) from last year's premium at the same limits and were able to get smooth coverage vs sublimits. But our hull value is just over $2 mm on our 2016 bird. And last year was our transition year/first year in a turbine and retract, both pilots on the policy are between 600-800 TT; the transition year is typically higher. Still it was nice to see that number go down ... but unfortunately, the other issue is liability limits.

I appreciate the insight into the Epic vs other SETP airframes in this insurance market. Love the plane and hope they can get everything back together.

The folks at Wings are superstars in my book - highly recommended!


Thank you for the kind words Joel - re: Ryan in my office - much appreciated. As I have mentioned prior if you have an asset close to that $2m or under valuation or perhaps you have transitioned into a turbine over the last policy period - you have a better chance of securing a favorable renewal as opposed to that (plug in any $3m owner/flown single-pilot turbine) renewal and related capacity in the higher hull value arena. There are always some exceptions to the above as insurance is not one size fits all but by and large those in the turbine world flying assets in this class can still see decent overall capacity with minimal increases and reasonable first year insurance pricing (reductions in some cases).

I'm currently working with a Piper dealer on a pre-owned M600 valued in the low $2m range for a 425 hrs guy coming from an M350. Frankly I don't think his first year insurance will be as bad on the M600 as his first year insurance was on the 1.4m M350 18 months ago (when he had only 150 hrs total time). There are a few bright spots in an otherwise dreary overall insurance climate. :thumbup:

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Tom Hauge
Wings Insurance
National Sales Director
E-mail: thauge@wingsinsurance.com


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 Post subject: Re: Flying the Epic LT
PostPosted: 02 Jun 2020, 13:18 
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This lovely lady showed up at my home airport yesterday. When I only saw pictures I want sure I loved the look, but damn is she sexy in person.


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