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 Post subject: Another Adventure - PA-32R-301T Turbo Saratoga SP
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2018, 09:05 
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Joined: 01/31/10
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I have a disease...but it could be worse.

When I say to my close friends "if I ever say I'm going to sell this plane, slap me", they just chuckle now. Maybe I'm afraid they will as I seem to buy the next plane before I even talk about selling the last one.

I love the "project". I really love the project.

Finding an airplane that has a ton of potential, but isn't obvious, is really interesting for me. Its rewarding to bring the engine to full potential, revitalize the cosmetics, dial in the panel, and restore an airframe to good working order with no squawks.

The problem is, once I am "done" I seem to lose a bit of interest even though I now have a "perfect" plane at my disposal. Its time to just admit...I have a problem.

So...the Toga.

I have been hunting a six-seat aircraft, and was actually hoping to install the sixth seat in my TNBo. That did not work out. I made a couple of offers (one was pretty strong) on Turbo 36 Bonanzas but the owners preferred to continue as owners.

Then here comes this Saratoga. My friend and business partner had a Turbo Saratoga of the same vintage when I got my PPL and so I remembered how roomy they were and how it outperformed my F35 Bo. I decided to investigate.

I quickly researched some stats, and desirable mods, only to learn this could be a perfect solution for my piston people hauler and Flying Sams missions. I contacted the seller, we cut a deal over the phone, and pending a flight test and boroscope in a few days the deal would be done.


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 Post subject: Re: Another Adventure - PA-32R-301T Turbo Saratoga SP
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2018, 09:15 
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I had a trip in the jet, where I would be leaving the plane in Nashville, so I decided to risk it and do what you should never do.

I set up a meeting with Steven Givens (the seller and a BTer) to fly the plane to pick me up in Nashville after I landed in the jet. We would then do the test flight from KBNA to his shop at KCVC which is Covington outside of Atlanta, GA. I wanted to decowl and inspect, including a boroscope, and then finalize the deal.

This is not generally a good idea. In my defense I have worked on/overhauled/tuned/restored several airplanes and so I have learned how to identify issues via flight and with a cursory inspection of the airframe and engine. Still, there is no substitute for a good prebuy for the typical transaction.

My FO cancelled the jet trip at the last minute, so I called Matt Mullahy to see if he could right seat. Matt is a BTer who relocated to AZ and flies for the regionals. He also lives in my hood and is a great dude. He jumped at the chance. We did our jet trip, met with Steven in Nashville, and the adventure began...


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 Post subject: Re: Another Adventure - PA-32R-301T Turbo Saratoga SP
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2018, 09:17 
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Joined: 07/15/11
Posts: 4392
Post Likes: +469
Location: Owensboro, KY (KOWB)
Aircraft: 1957 Bonanza H35
Watching this!


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 Post subject: Re: Another Adventure - PA-32R-301T Turbo Saratoga SP
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2018, 09:27 
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Before doing the deal, I spoke with the former mechanic who maintained 41A for more than a decade. This discussion is really what led me to purchase the aircraft.

As you can see, the listing pics show a plane in rough condition.

What I learned is, this aircraft is actually pretty special.

This is one of thirteen (13) Turbo Saratoga SPs that came from Piper with full deice. It is wired for a hotplate (removed thankfully), fully booted, and has a hot prop. In addition, the plane was owned by a gentlemen who also owned a Pilatus and spared no expense on maintenance an refurb during the initial years of ownership. That owner actually purchased the plane from a longtime previous owner - his brother. I knew this was going to be a good one. This plane has EVERY desirable mod and factory option. Whoa! Sweet....

Everything Firewall Forward had been replaced. A Factory Lycoming was installed, all new hoses/baffling/accessories/mount/insulation etc. A composite MT heated 3 blade prop was added. The boots had been replaced recently, the wet wing cells resealed, the AC system reworked.

The plane has:

A TIO-540S1AD 310HP with 670ish TT E and Prop
Factory Air Conditioning
Fully Deiced (including a dedicated 442 pump on the back of the engine for the boots)
Turbo-Plus Intercooler ($20k mod and a huge improvement)
Gamis
Engine Monitor
Factory O2
All of the desirable LoPresti Speed Mods
HID lights including flashers
Ice Light
Stec 55x / GPSS
Radar ALT
Stormscope
GMX-200
XM Weather/Radio via GDL-69
430W
SL-30

That was a great start for a restore. The juices were flowing.


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 Post subject: Re: Another Adventure - PA-32R-301T Turbo Saratoga SP
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2018, 09:59 
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Joined: 01/23/13
Posts: 8069
Post Likes: +5760
Company: Kokotele Guitar Works
Location: Albany, NY
Aircraft: C-182RG, C-172, PA28
I get the love for the project, and suffer from that same affliction in other things. You get to loving the work and the intimate knowledge you gain, and then when you're done the only thing left is to use it. Some of us are mechanics, some of us are drivers.

Looks like you got a really sweet ride there. Enjoy the project!


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 Post subject: Re: Another Adventure - PA-32R-301T Turbo Saratoga SP
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2018, 09:59 
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Joined: 08/05/11
Posts: 5303
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Aircraft: BE-55
Plane junkie

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 Post subject: Re: Another Adventure - PA-32R-301T Turbo Saratoga SP
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2018, 11:18 
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Joined: 11/03/08
Posts: 14563
Post Likes: +22916
Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
Jesse, that center console foam cooler in the picture is rare as can be, to find one intact. If your new plane doesn't have one, then grab the first one you find wherever you find it.


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 Post subject: Re: Another Adventure - PA-32R-301T Turbo Saratoga SP
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2018, 11:25 
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Joined: 01/31/10
Posts: 13101
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Username Protected wrote:
Jesse, that center console foam cooler in the picture is rare as can be, to find one intact. If your new plane doesn't have one, then grab the first one you find wherever you find it.


I was thinking about fabbing one along with an organizer and cup holders for between the front seats. There is so much room it opens a lot of possibilities. I also want to track down a 7th seat since they go in so easily.

This thing has more room than the Baron/36 by a long shot. With aft and nose baggage its surprising for a single.


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 Post subject: Re: Another Adventure - PA-32R-301T Turbo Saratoga SP
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2018, 11:40 
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Joined: 06/28/09
Posts: 14146
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Location: Walnut Creek, CA (KCCR)
Aircraft: 1962 Twin Bonanza
Queue the sad puppy meme generator... "When you're hoping to see a polished aluminum Beech 18, and instead it's a 1980's Piper". :D

Just kidding ya Jesse congrats. Can't wait to see what you do with her.

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 Post subject: Re: Another Adventure - PA-32R-301T Turbo Saratoga SP
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2018, 11:41 
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Joined: 11/03/08
Posts: 14563
Post Likes: +22916
Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
check the insurance rates for the 7th seat, when I had my PA32 it had the 7th seat and I ended up taking it out to get a break on the costs


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 Post subject: Re: Another Adventure - PA-32R-301T Turbo Saratoga SP
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2018, 11:48 
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Joined: 01/31/10
Posts: 13101
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Username Protected wrote:
Queue the sad puppy meme generator... "When you're hoping to see a polished aluminum Beech 18, and instead it's a 1980's Piper". :D

Just kidding ya Jesse congrats. Can't wait to see what you do with her.


I know!

It seems like they pick me. I can say the Navajo was a pleasant surprise and ended up being one of my favorites. Piper definitely has some things figured out (besides the obvious cabin size.

One of the things that I discovered which actually made me upset with Beech - the airvents. There are four fresh airvents on the floor in the cockpit (pilot/copilot knee/back area). They have a rotating vent that is about 3” diameter and a multi-position lever to adjust volume.

These things are ridiculous! They blow so much air its like a wind tunnel with all 4 open. The Johnson bar flaps, the simple hydraulic gear that drops in an emergency with the push of a lever, the maintenance access panels....these are things that just make you wonder why Beech couldn’t have done better in some areas to create the perfect machine.

The 18 still hasn’t found me yet. I’ve made offers, tried to force it...but the owners wanted to stay owners :). My day will come.


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 Post subject: Re: Another Adventure - PA-32R-301T Turbo Saratoga SP
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2018, 11:54 
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Joined: 11/03/08
Posts: 14563
Post Likes: +22916
Location: Peachtree City GA / Stoke-On-Trent UK
Aircraft: A33
Jesse - if you need help, one of my kids is experienced doing PA32 interior work. Here she was during her journeyman years


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 Post subject: Re: Another Adventure - PA-32R-301T Turbo Saratoga SP
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2018, 14:17 
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Joined: 11/25/16
Posts: 1820
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Location: 2IS
Aircraft: C501
Username Protected wrote:
There is so much room it opens a lot of possibilities.

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 Post subject: Re: Another Adventure - PA-32R-301T Turbo Saratoga SP
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2018, 14:45 
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Joined: 01/31/10
Posts: 13101
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Matt and I land the jet, we taxi into Signature BNA (great folks by the way). I spot 41A and walk over for the initial look. Eek. Its cosmetically rougher than I expected, however, Steven (the seller) did describe it fairly. I'm mentally noting the amount of work in front of me while I walk around.

The paint was healthy...just oxidized. There was plenty of good paint underneath which can be a big issue with red colors. The boots were actually very good from a "rubber" perspective, but they were in disrepair.

The seller, a BTer who owns a shop at Covington with this brother, had bought this thing to flip it (I won't disclose the reason the prior owner needed to do that).

He had been very accurate, and had made no effort to oversell the plane. This is actually one reason I was interested after the initial call.

On arrival, Steve was a man of few words...like two. So here we were, Matt and I, about to jump in the Toga for the inspection flight with a guy we have never met and a plane that we at least knew made it from Atlanta to Nashville.

The battery was weak on startup. One radio was a little scratchy for Ground. It idled well as I pushed all the buttons and turned knobs. After we did all we could on the ground, we taxid out.

The takeoff performance seemed underwhelming, but the climb rate was excellent. We had a load of gas and three dudes and it was 1,000fpm plus initial without trying too hard.

I immediately noticed the #6CHT was thru the roof. Steven mentioned a spark plug CHT probe and that the factory gauge was on the #6 with a bayonet. It was well in the green so we continued on.

The autopilot seemed a little lazy in pitch and roll. The trim wheel was TIGHT. A roll commanded to the left was fine, but coming back to the right it seemed like the servo was slipping and needed some help. The plane danced back and forth across the course line...we have an issue.

The AC worked great in the back, although the front vents were a little weak. It was blowing cold, just a flow issue up front.

The plane would run LOP, but it wasn't too happy about it. My LYCs in the Navajo were smooth as silk once dialed in. I could see the potential, but this would take work too.

The prop heat worked. The boots were unbelievably strong. I expected anemic performance for a single with boots. The dedicated 442 blows them hard and fast. The inboards, the outboards, and the tail all worked as published as does the indicator light on the panel. The prop amp gauge worked too.

The Stec 55x has VS select which is nice. The vertical performance was good.

Initially, Steve was going to have us drop him off at another airport but I asked to head to his shop and he obliged.

We loaded an approach and it coupled up and all went well until we got close into the field where it fell behind and began chasing the glide slope.

We landed. It was night now and Steve didn't have his best landed (as we all don't sometimes). He says, "when you buy it...you can practice those" Ha! Now I knew I liked this guy.

I asked him to decowl and to grab a boroscope. With the CHTs on #6, I expected to find a probe issue, or a melted piston as 500dF isn't usually the best for a jug. After the cowl was off, I knew we had a deal. The install was beautiful. Everything had been done right, the engine was tight, the wiring was routed correctly, the baffling was perfect, only a small oil leak from the filler gasket existed.

I went jug by jug and found perfect pizzas as is common with Lycs. The cross-hatch was there on all cylinders and the piston edges showed no signs of abuse. We looked everything over and satisfied, we cowled it up. The #6 was fine. I noticed a "white" wire upstream that someone had spliced into the harness. It was buried under firesleeve, but I suspected that may be the issue combined with the ring type probe.

Steve and I did the deal, he gassed it up for us and after a quick run to Arby's, Matt and I blasted off.

IMPORTANT NOTE:

For reasons I will mention later, I must note that Steve and Southern Air Group would be high on my list of shops if I were in the Atlanta area. This guy and his brother were excellent to deal with, knew what a boroscope was (had one handy), was knowledgeable about the plane, and was just a good man overall. He was tested a little after the deal had been done (not intentional) and I can say he was ready to stand behind his word and help out after the fact. Good dudes!


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Last edited on 07 Nov 2018, 15:18, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Another Adventure - PA-32R-301T Turbo Saratoga SP
PostPosted: 07 Nov 2018, 15:00 
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Joined: 08/31/17
Posts: 1592
Post Likes: +623
Aircraft: C180
Username Protected wrote:
Matt and I land the jet, we taxi into Signature BNA (great folks by the way). I spot 41A and walk over for the initial look. Eek. Its cosmetically rougher than I expected, however, Steven (the seller) did describe it fairly. I'm mentally noting the amount of work in front of me while I walk around.

The paint was healthy...just oxidized. There was plenty of good paint underneath which can be a big issue with red colors. The boots were actually very good from a "rubber" perspective, but they were in disrepair.

The seller, a BTer who owns a shop at Covington with this brother, had bought this thing to flip it (I won't disclose the reason the prior owner needed to do that).

He had been very accurate, and had made no effort to oversell the plane. This is actually one reason I was interested after the initial call.

On arrival, Steve was a man of few words...like two. So here we were, Matt and I, about to jump in the Toga for the inspection flight with a guy we have never met and a plane that we at least knew made it from Atlanta to Nashville.

The battery was weak on startup. One radio was a little scratchy for Ground. It idled well as I pushed all the buttons and turned knobs. After we did all we could on the ground, we taxid out.

The takeoff performance seemed underwhelming, but the climb rate was excellent. We had a load of gas and three dudes and it was 1,000fpm plus initial without trying too hard.

I immediately noticed the #6CHT was thru the roof. Steven mentioned a spark plug CHT probe and that the factory gauge was on the #6 with a bayonet. It was well in the green so we continued on.

The autopilot seemed a little lazy in pitch and roll. The trim wheel was TIGHT. A roll commanded to the left was fine, but coming back to the right it seemed like the servo was slipping and needed some help. The plane danced back and forth across the course line...we have an issue.

The AC worked great in the back, although the front vents were a little weak. It was blowing cold, just a flow issue up front.

The plane would run LOP, but it wasn't too happy about it. My LYCs in the Navajo were smooth as silk once dialed in. I could see the potential, but this would take work too.

The prop heat worked. The boots were unbelievably strong. I expected anemic performance for a single with boots. The dedicated 442 blows them hard and fast. The inboards, the outboards, and the tail all worked as published as does the indicator light on the panel. The prop amp gauge worked too.

The Stec 55x has VS select which is nice. The vertical performance was good.

Initially, Steve was going to have us drop him off at another airport but I asked to head to his shop and he obliged.

We loaded an approach and it coupled up and all went well until we got close into the field where it fell behind and began chasing the glide slope.

We landed. It was night now and Steve didn't have his best landed (as we all don't sometimes). He says, "when you buy it...you can practice those" Ha! Now I knew I liked this guy.

I asked him to decowl and to grab a boroscope. With the CHTs on #6, I expected to find a probe issue, or a melted piston as 500dF isn't usually the best for a jug. After the cowl was off, I knew we had a deal. The install was beautiful. Everything had been done right, the engine was tight, the wiring was routed correctly, the baffling was perfect, only a small oil leak from the filler gasket existed.

I went jug by jug and found perfect pizzas as is common with Lycs. The cross-hatch was there on all cylinders and the piston edges showed no signs of abuse. We looked everything over and satisfied, we cowled it up. The #6 was fine. I noticed a "white" wire upstream that someone had spliced into the harness. It was buried under firesleeve, but I suspected that may be the issue combined with the ring type probe.

Steve and I did the deal, he gassed it up for us and after a quick run to Arby's, Matt and I blasted off.

IMPORTANT NOTE:

For reasons I will mention later, I must note that Steve and Southern Air Group would be high on my list of shops if I were in the Atlanta area. This guy and his brother were excellent to deal with, knew what a boroscope was (had one handy), was knowledgeable about the plane, and was just a good man overall. He was tested a little after the deal had been done (not intentional) and I can say he was ready to stand behind his word and help out after the fact. Good dudes!


Keep it coming, you've got me shopping for similar reasons.


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