20 Apr 2024, 05:39 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Mooney Bravo while my Bo is down Posted: 07 Jan 2019, 17:16 |
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Joined: 10/03/17 Posts: 321 Post Likes: +186
Aircraft: Bonanza A36
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Andy, Thanks for the info re approach flaps. That does make sense. One technique posted here that surprised me was using speed brakes all the way to landing. I do find them to be a great AS management tool.
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Post subject: Re: Mooney Bravo while my Bo is down Posted: 07 Jan 2019, 18:50 |
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Joined: 10/31/14 Posts: 534 Post Likes: +255
Aircraft: eclipse
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Daniel You’re welcome
I only used the speed brakes when I had too like when ATC crams you down.
I always thought using speed brakes on final was a crutch for poor speed control.
While close to the ground I always wanted as much performance available just in case.
I am interested in your O2 levels I was shocked how low mine were at below 12k
I moved up from the bravo to the Eclipse and that worked well for me.
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Post subject: Re: Mooney Bravo while my Bo is down Posted: 07 Jan 2019, 20:56 |
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Joined: 10/03/16 Posts: 273 Post Likes: +181 Location: Chicagoland
Aircraft: Mooney Acclaim
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Username Protected wrote: Daniel I am 99% certain that you can do approach flaps at any speed the limitation is for landing flaps.
My process was approach flaps gear than landing flaps.
I am glad you are enjoying it.
Check your O2 levels I found out that at 10k my level was less than 90% so I would go on Ox and fly in the upper teens and enjoy more speed and less Wx. Definitely not correct according to Mooney. Vfe is 109 for either setting. There is some gnarly twisting load on the wings with any flap extension. Page 23 of http://www.deltaaviation.com/Nav%20Page ... H3502H.pdfSays full down for Vfe, but both Stacey and the current flight test engineer have told me no flaps above Vfe. O2 saturation reading varies dramatically from person to person. My wife stays in the high 90s all the way up to 17.5 on cannula, whereas I am not even close. The documentation that came with one of my pulse oximeter units said readings at altitude may be unreliable. Swell.
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Post subject: Re: Mooney Bravo while my Bo is down Posted: 07 Jan 2019, 22:00 |
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Joined: 06/17/14 Posts: 5012 Post Likes: +1951 Location: KJYO
Aircraft: C-182, GA-7
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My time doing a few ride-alongs in a Bravo made it clear that slowing down takes some forethought. Those birds are as slick as a greased fish! Thanks for sharing your time and experience with us and my sincere hope is that your Bo is back before spring!
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Post subject: Re: Mooney Bravo while my Bo is down Posted: 07 Jan 2019, 22:15 |
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Joined: 10/31/14 Posts: 534 Post Likes: +255
Aircraft: eclipse
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Username Protected wrote: Daniel I am 99% certain that you can do approach flaps at any speed the limitation is for landing flaps.
My process was approach flaps gear than landing flaps.
I am glad you are enjoying it.
Check your O2 levels I found out that at 10k my level was less than 90% so I would go on Ox and fly in the upper teens and enjoy more speed and less Wx. Definitely not correct according to Mooney. Vfe is 109 for either setting. There is some gnarly twisting load on the wings with any flap extension. Page 23 of http://www.deltaaviation.com/Nav%20Page ... H3502H.pdfSays full down for Vfe, but both Stacey and the current flight test engineer have told me no flaps above Vfe. O2 saturation reading varies dramatically from person to person. My wife stays in the high 90s all the way up to 17.5 on cannula, whereas I am not even close. The documentation that came with one of my pulse oximeter units said readings at altitude may be unreliable. Swell.
Thanks for attaching the POH check normal procedures page 4-16
Flaps T/O until under 110 knots
I owned and operated a Bravo for 10 years never a flap problem cause I followed my training and the POH.
I love Moony,s flew my Dad,s 201 talked him into a 252 and partnered with him on the Bravo and bought our his share.
My wife definitely gets hypoxia at 14K it was funny how we found that out
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Post subject: Re: Mooney Bravo while my Bo is down Posted: 07 Jan 2019, 22:44 |
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Joined: 10/03/16 Posts: 273 Post Likes: +181 Location: Chicagoland
Aircraft: Mooney Acclaim
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Username Protected wrote: Definitely not correct according to Mooney. Vfe is 109 for either setting. There is some gnarly twisting load on the wings with any flap extension. Page 23 of http://www.deltaaviation.com/Nav%20Page ... H3502H.pdfSays full down for Vfe, but both Stacey and the current flight test engineer have told me no flaps above Vfe. O2 saturation reading varies dramatically from person to person. My wife stays in the high 90s all the way up to 17.5 on cannula, whereas I am not even close. The documentation that came with one of my pulse oximeter units said readings at altitude may be unreliable. Swell. Thanks for attaching the POH check normal procedures page 4-16 Flaps T/O until under 110 knots I owned and operated a Bravo for 10 years never a flap problem cause I followed my training and the POH. I love Moony,s flew my Dad,s 201 talked him into a 252 and partnered with him on the Bravo and bought our his share. My wife definitely gets hypoxia at 14K it was funny how we found that out
Yeah, it’s weird how the POH is ambiguous like that. For the J model, the TCDS did allow 10 knots higher for approach flaps, but that’s Only for the re-launched “Allegro “ serial numbers. TCDS HERE http://67m20e.com/Mooney%20TCDS%202A3%2 ... 9DEC10.pdf
Page 40 is bravo. Page 20 is the J.
I’ve heard some pilots have forgotten takeoff flaps and cruised merrily along with them down for a bit. I might know a few. No damage reported, but from what Stacey Ellis told me, it’s wear and tear on the stub spar to which the flaps mount that is a concern. Cumulative > Vfe flap use can bend or crack this part.
Anyhow, I don’t find the approach flaps on my TN or my old 231 add enough drag to warrant using them above Vfe. The careful planning and taking advantage of the 140 KIAS Vle usually are sufficient, and if ATC serves up a challenge, then speed brakes are awesome (except in ice, of course).
Cheers.
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Post subject: Re: Mooney Bravo while my Bo is down Posted: 07 Jan 2019, 23:10 |
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Joined: 10/31/14 Posts: 534 Post Likes: +255
Aircraft: eclipse
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Dan, As I remember they reinforced the flaps on the J model and on all the models since then. And you can see the 126 knot limitation was for 15 degrees of flaps. AFAIK all the newer models have only 10 degrees of Approach/Takeoff flaps and that removes that limitation. I was told and I believe that getting in the approach flaps,landing gear,landing flaps sequence sets you up for higher performance aircraft has worked for me that’s what I do in the Eclipse
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Post subject: Re: Mooney Bravo while my Bo is down Posted: 08 Jan 2019, 13:01 |
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Joined: 10/03/17 Posts: 321 Post Likes: +186
Aircraft: Bonanza A36
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Anyone have thoughts about the cruise power setting that’s been recommended? In particular, 50-100 LOP at 30” and 2400 would put me in the middle of the “ red Box”. That’s sounds like best power FF to me. What say the Bravo guys here?
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Post subject: Re: Mooney Bravo while my Bo is down Posted: 08 Jan 2019, 15:59 |
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Joined: 05/29/14 Posts: 1369 Post Likes: +434
Aircraft: Mooney M20J
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My J (older model) has a higher speed (115 knots).
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Post subject: Re: Mooney Bravo while my Bo is down Posted: 08 Jan 2019, 16:09 |
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Joined: 10/14/09 Posts: 802 Post Likes: +282 Location: Dallas (KADS)
Aircraft: A36
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Username Protected wrote: My J (older model) has a higher speed (115 knots). My '87 J had a full flap limitation @ 115 kias, and an intermediate flap limitation of 132 kias.
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Post subject: Re: Mooney Bravo while my Bo is down Posted: 09 Jan 2019, 11:33 |
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Joined: 01/30/15 Posts: 1504 Post Likes: +641 Location: Dalton, Ga. KDNN
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Username Protected wrote: Anyone have thoughts about the cruise power setting that’s been recommended? In particular, 50-100 LOP at 30” and 2400 would put me in the middle of the “ red Box”. That’s sounds like best power FF to me. What say the Bravo guys here? You mean ROP ? Hard to tell without fuel flow (except where you said LOP ) I am typically 27"/28" and always 2400 rpm, 19.5-19.8gph, 1600TiT
_________________ Mooney Bravo & Just Superstol
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Post subject: Re: Mooney Bravo while my Bo is down Posted: 09 Jan 2019, 15:57 |
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Joined: 10/03/17 Posts: 321 Post Likes: +186
Aircraft: Bonanza A36
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Sorry for the misstatement Tony. You are correct. I did mean 50-100 ROP, not LOP, would seem to put me squarely in the dreaded red box. From what I can tell, LOP operations are not standard with the TSIO 540. The FF I’m seeing is 19.5 -20gph to the target TIT.
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Post subject: Re: Mooney Bravo while my Bo is down Posted: 10 Jan 2019, 13:38 |
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Joined: 10/31/14 Posts: 534 Post Likes: +255
Aircraft: eclipse
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Daniel I ran mine 34” and 2400 rpm and 1650 tit. And that’s what Weber’s in LNS recommended
I also remembered that I used a lot of up trim when landing so with first notch of flaps I started adding up trim.
And when I went to full flaps I added more up trim
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