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 Post subject: Re: Mooney Bravo while my Bo is down
PostPosted: 10 Jan 2019, 22:08 
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Username Protected wrote:
Daniel
I ran mine 34” and 2400 rpm and 1650 tit. And that’s what Weber’s in LNS recommended

I also remembered that I used a lot of up trim when landing so with first notch of flaps I started adding up trim.

And when I went to full flaps I added more up trim




That is essentially a full power setting. You can do it but don’t expect to make TBO


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 Post subject: Re: Mooney Bravo while my Bo is down
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2019, 06:12 
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Frank
The engine in the Bravo is actually a 310 hp engine derated to 270.

So that’s not as high a setting as you would expect.

And FWIW in both the 252 and the Bravo we had to top the engines at around 1000 hours


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 Post subject: Re: Mooney Bravo while my Bo is down
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2019, 06:25 
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Username Protected wrote:
Frank
The engine in the Bravo is actually a 310 hp engine derated to 270.

So that’s not as high a setting as you would expect.

And FWIW in both the 252 and the Bravo we had to top the engines at around 1000 hours

on the bravo side its usually common to make TBO. A lot of the owners on mooneyspace seem to make TBO just fine on those engines. OTOH its not uncommon for continentals to need a top half way to TBO.


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 Post subject: Re: Mooney Bravo while my Bo is down
PostPosted: 13 Jan 2019, 22:42 
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Username Protected wrote:
Frank
The engine in the Bravo is actually a 310 hp engine derated to 270.

So that’s not as high a setting as you would expect.

And FWIW in both the 252 and the Bravo we had to top the engines at around 1000 hours


There are TIO-540’s at 350/360 but I’m not sure that the Bravo is a derated version. Maybe more like an uprated version ?

The AF1A being an AF1B after the wet head mod = Bravo engine.

Model/HP/Max RPM/Fuel/Compression/Description
O-540-ALA 250/235 2575/2400 100/100LL 8.50:1 Two sixth order counterweights
(not sure about the origin here - couldn't find an A1A, ALA is the closest)
O-540-A1A5 250/235 2575/2400 100/100LL 8.50:1 Same as O-540-A1A but one fifth and one sixth order counterweights
O-540-A1B5 250/235 2575/2400 100/100LL 8.50:1 Same as -A1A5 except for short propeller governor studs and two impulse magnetos
O-540-A1D5 250/235 2575/2400 100/100LL 8.50:1 Same as -A1B5 except for Retard Breaker Magnetos
IO-540-C1B5 250 2575 100/100LL 8.50:1 Same as O-540-A1D5 but with Bendix fuel injector
IO-540-C4B5 250 2575 100/100LL 8.50:1 Same as -C1B5 but with more effective counterweights for use with Hartzell "compact,, propeller
IO-540-J4A5 250 2575 100/100LL 8.50:1 Same as -C4B5 except comersion for use with turbo- charger, long reach spark plugs, piston cooling oil jets, AN fuel pump drive, vented fuel nozzles and -1200 series Magnetos
TIO-540-C1A 250 2575 100/100LL 7.20:1 IO-540-J4A5 equipped with TE0659 turbocharger and low compression pistons
TIO-540-K1AD 250 2575 100/100LL 8.00:1 Similar to -CIA but with D6LN-3200 retard breaker dual magneto, pressure controller, provision for cabin pressurization, rear mounted fuel injector, turbocharger mounted to rear of engine and higher C.R.
TIO-540-AA1AD 270 2575 100/100LL 8.00:1 Similar to -K1AD but has a different controller system and has provision for a rear mounted propeller governor
TIO-540-AF1A 270 2575 100/100LL 8.00:1 Similar to -AA1AD but has Slick magnetos, different turbocharger and an intercooler


Info from: http://www.meyette.us/LycomingEngineNumbers.htm

_________________
Mooney Bravo & Just Superstol


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 Post subject: Re: Mooney Bravo while my Bo is down
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2019, 07:37 
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Username Protected wrote:
Frank
The engine in the Bravo is actually a 310 hp engine derated to 270.

So that’s not as high a setting as you would expect.

And FWIW in both the 252 and the Bravo we had to top the engines at around 1000 hours


There are TIO-540’s at 350/360 but I’m not sure that the Bravo is a derated version. Maybe more like an uprated version ?

The AF1A being an AF1B after the wet head mod = Bravo engine.




Model/HP/Max RPM/Fuel/Compression/Description
O-540-ALA 250/235 2575/2400 100/100LL 8.50:1 Two sixth order counterweights
(not sure about the origin here - couldn't find an A1A, ALA is the closest)
O-540-A1A5 250/235 2575/2400 100/100LL 8.50:1 Same as O-540-A1A but one fifth and one sixth order counterweights
O-540-A1B5 250/235 2575/2400 100/100LL 8.50:1 Same as -A1A5 except for short propeller governor studs and two impulse magnetos
O-540-A1D5 250/235 2575/2400 100/100LL 8.50:1 Same as -A1B5 except for Retard Breaker Magnetos
IO-540-C1B5 250 2575 100/100LL 8.50:1 Same as O-540-A1D5 but with Bendix fuel injector
IO-540-C4B5 250 2575 100/100LL 8.50:1 Same as -C1B5 but with more effective counterweights for use with Hartzell "compact,, propeller
IO-540-J4A5 250 2575 100/100LL 8.50:1 Same as -C4B5 except comersion for use with turbo- charger, long reach spark plugs, piston cooling oil jets, AN fuel pump drive, vented fuel nozzles and -1200 series Magnetos
TIO-540-C1A 250 2575 100/100LL 7.20:1 IO-540-J4A5 equipped with TE0659 turbocharger and low compression pistons
TIO-540-K1AD 250 2575 100/100LL 8.00:1 Similar to -CIA but with D6LN-3200 retard breaker dual magneto, pressure controller, provision for cabin pressurization, rear mounted fuel injector, turbocharger mounted to rear of engine and higher C.R.
TIO-540-AA1AD 270 2575 100/100LL 8.00:1 Similar to -K1AD but has a different controller system and has provision for a rear mounted propeller governor
TIO-540-AF1A 270 2575 100/100LL 8.00:1 Similar to -AA1AD but has Slick magnetos, different turbocharger and an intercooler


Info from: http://www.meyette.us/LycomingEngineNumbers.htm



Tony,
You missed most of the turbo versions

They get as much as 360 hp out of that block and 310 hp out of the A version

TIO-540-S1AD 300 2700 100/100LL 7.30:1 Similar to IO-540-M2AD with front air inlet, provision for controllable propeller, a manually controlled TE0659 turbocharger and D6LN-3000 impulse coupling magneto -61
TIO-540-AA1AD 270 2575 100/100LL 8.00:1 Similar to -K1AD but has a different controller system and has provision for a rear mounted propeller governor -61
TIO-540-AB1AD 250 2575 100/100LL 8.00:1 Same as -AA1AD but has bottom mounted fuel injector, a relocated turbocharger and a D6LN-3000 impulse coupling magneto -61
TIO-540-AB1BD 250 2575 100/100LL 8.00:1 Similar to -AB1AD except has propeller governor mounted on the accessory housing and the turbo scavenger pump moved to the vacuum pump pad and more effective counterweights for McCauley propeller -61
TIO-540-AF1A 270 2575 100/100LL 8.00:1 Similar to -AA1AD but has Slick magnetos, different turbocharger and an intercooler -61
TIO-540-A2A 310 2575 100/100LL 7.30:1 Same as -A1A but with propeller flange bushings for 3-blade propeller -61
TIO-540-A2B 310 2575 100/100LL 7.30:1 Same as -A1B but with propeller flange bushings for 3-blade propeller -61
TIO-540-A2C 310 2575 100/100LL 7.30:1 Same as -A1C but with propeller flange bushings for 3-blade propeller -61
TIO-540-F2BD 325 2575 100/100LL 7.30:1 Similar to -A2B but incorporates D6LN-3200 retard breaker dual magneto system -61
TIO-540-J2B 350 2575 100/100LL 7.30:1 Same as -J2BD but has S6LN-1208 (Retard Breaker) and S6LN-1209 magnetos -61
TIO-540-J2BD 350 2575 100/100LL 7.30:1 Similar to -F2BD except equipped with TH08A60 turbocharger -61
TIO-540-N2BD 350 2575 100/100LL 7.30:1 Identical to -J2BD except turbocharger shifted one-half inch to the left -61
TIO-540-R2AD 350/
340 2575/
2500 100/100LL 7.30:1 Similar to -J2BD except has provision for cabin bleed and has a variable pressure controller -61
TIO-540-T2AD 330 2400 100/100LL 7.30:1 Same as -J2BD except for a modified exhaust transition and lower rating -61
TIO-540-U2A 350 2500 100/100LL 7.30:1 Similar to IO-~0-~5 but with intercooler and customer supplied turbocharger system -61
TIO-540-V2AD 360 2600 100/100LL 7.30:1 Similar to -J2BD except with an intercooler and a change in cylinder head design -61
TIO-540-W2A 360 2600 100/100LL 7.30:1 Similar to -V2AD but with Slick 6261 (imp. coupling) and 6260 pressurized magnetos, a different controller system and without either induction air cooler or cabin bleed -61
TIO-540-AE2A 350 2500 100/100LL 7.30:1 Similar to -U2A but has (2) Garrett instead of Roto-Master turbochargers, (2) intercoolers, (1) wastegate and Slick magnetos -61

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 Post subject: Re: Mooney Bravo while my Bo is down
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2019, 14:08 
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As with the suggestion for the OP above, best to check with the aircraft owner how he wishes it to be run. TBO is not going to be an issue for the OP (unless he comes to his senses and trades his broken Bo for the Bravo!)

As for de-rating, I've seen this analysis a few places, in this case, from Trey Hughes at MAPA:
"In retrospect, this could be a predictable situation. Here we have a large-bore engine producing 270-horsepower and in the hanger next door may be another variation of the TIO-540 in, say a Navajo Chieftain, producing 350-horsepower. It would be easy for the average TLS operator to think his engine was a de-rated version of the 350-hp monster. At 270 hp it’s not working as hard as the engine in the Piper, and using nearly 90% of that number for cruise should pose no major problems. Unfortunately, this premise is incorrect. The two engines have little in common. The engine used in the TLS is rated at 260 hp without the turbocharger – at a higher compression ratio and RPM – and is really a lightweight version of the Navajo’s 540. As a result, exhaust valve guides bore the brunt of the wear from these operations."

http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/M20 ... _eval.html


I don't know if this is correct, but it's the received wisdom in my experience among Mooney people. AOPA reported similarly.

-de


-de


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 Post subject: Re: Mooney Bravo while my Bo is down
PostPosted: 14 Jan 2019, 16:29 
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Aircraft: Bonanza A36
Dan, Thanks for including the link to the Mooney evaluation flight article by Trey Hughes. I thought the plane featured in the article looked familiar, N765LM is the Bravo I’m currently flying making that article particularly relevant! Thanks again for the feedback from everyone. Daniel


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