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 Post subject: Citation 500/550 folks, help! Stuck in Alaska
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2018, 04:19 
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Joined: 04/12/09
Posts: 33
Post Likes: +6
Location: Auckland New Zealand
Aircraft: C501,206 Amphib,C421
Folks,

We are in the process of ferrying my new to me citation 2 from the USA to home in New Zealand.

The plane has an issue on the ferry flight with the electric fuel boost pump on the Left hand side popping circuit breakers. As luck would have it, of course, its happened at PACD, Cold Bay Alaska. So a bit of a problem

I believe in normal circumstances its used only when starting and crossfeeding, otherwise remains off.

The fuel from the aux ferry tank is plumbed to the left wing then its cross fed to the right.

Questions?
If the breaker will not reset in the morning for the start, can we start the LH engine having started the right first then using the cross feed to start the left ? At least that gets the plane going and we have access to normal fuel Quantity so could be flown back to Anchorage or West Coast of mainland USA.

If that’s not possible any other ideas on how to get the engine going?

Parts and maintenance

Anybody know of a shop in Anchorage that would have the experience of how to change the Aux pump?
Anybody know of a good source to get an Aux pump up to Alaska as quick as possible if there is no quick fix and we can find a shop capable of doing the work.

Gen question
Could it be the pump isn’t used to handling such constant loads? If its not an issue, they could consider plumbing it to the other side

Sorry for the mail to all, but obviously it less than ideal with the winter approaching and PACD being pretty much out on the edge of the continent. All positive ideas, and lateral thinking considered in this time of need,

Thanks in advance for your help!

Stuart C


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 500/550 folks, help! Stuck in Alaska
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2018, 06:06 
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Joined: 06/08/12
Posts: 12587
Post Likes: +5181
Company: Mayo Clinic
Location: Rochester, MN
Aircraft: Planeless in RST
Username Protected wrote:
Folks,

We are in the process of ferrying my new to me citation 2 from the USA to home in New Zealand.

The plane has an issue on the ferry flight with the electric fuel boost pump on the Left hand side popping circuit breakers. As luck would have it, of course, its happened at PACD, Cold Bay Alaska. So a bit of a problem

I believe in normal circumstances its used only when starting and crossfeeding, otherwise remains off.

The fuel from the aux ferry tank is plumbed to the left wing then its cross fed to the right.

Questions?
If the breaker will not reset in the morning for the start, can we start the LH engine having started the right first then using the cross feed to start the left ? At least that gets the plane going and we have access to normal fuel Quantity so could be flown back to Anchorage or West Coast of mainland USA.

If that’s not possible any other ideas on how to get the engine going?

Parts and maintenance

Anybody know of a shop in Anchorage that would have the experience of how to change the Aux pump?
Anybody know of a good source to get an Aux pump up to Alaska as quick as possible if there is no quick fix and we can find a shop capable of doing the work.

Gen question
Could it be the pump isn’t used to handling such constant loads? If its not an issue, they could consider plumbing it to the other side

Sorry for the mail to all, but obviously it less than ideal with the winter approaching and PACD being pretty much out on the edge of the continent. All positive ideas, and lateral thinking considered in this time of need,

Thanks in advance for your help!

Stuart C


Stuart, I’m sorry this is happening.
PIng Mark Hangen, ill bet he will know some of these answers and also know a man who knows a man.
Good luck!

_________________
BFR 8/18; IPC 8/18


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 500/550 folks, help! Stuck in Alaska
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2018, 08:51 
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Joined: 06/08/12
Posts: 12587
Post Likes: +5181
Company: Mayo Clinic
Location: Rochester, MN
Aircraft: Planeless in RST
Ive reached out to Mark. Unable to assist at this time.

_________________
BFR 8/18; IPC 8/18


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 500/550 folks, help! Stuck in Alaska
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2018, 09:02 
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Joined: 05/05/09
Posts: 4946
Post Likes: +4785
Aircraft: G44, C501, C55, R66
Username Protected wrote:
Folks,

We are in the process of ferrying my new to me citation 2 from the USA to home in New Zealand.

The plane has an issue on the ferry flight with the electric fuel boost pump on the Left hand side popping circuit breakers. As luck would have it, of course, its happened at PACD, Cold Bay Alaska. So a bit of a problem

I believe in normal circumstances its used only when starting and crossfeeding, otherwise remains off.

The fuel from the aux ferry tank is plumbed to the left wing then its cross fed to the right.

Questions?
If the breaker will not reset in the morning for the start, can we start the LH engine having started the right first then using the cross feed to start the left ? At least that gets the plane going and we have access to normal fuel Quantity so could be flown back to Anchorage or West Coast of mainland USA.

If that’s not possible any other ideas on how to get the engine going?

Parts and maintenance

Anybody know of a shop in Anchorage that would have the experience of how to change the Aux pump?
Anybody know of a good source to get an Aux pump up to Alaska as quick as possible if there is no quick fix and we can find a shop capable of doing the work.

Gen question
Could it be the pump isn’t used to handling such constant loads? If its not an issue, they could consider plumbing it to the other side

Sorry for the mail to all, but obviously it less than ideal with the winter approaching and PACD being pretty much out on the edge of the continent. All positive ideas, and lateral thinking considered in this time of need,

Thanks in advance for your help!

Stuart C


Hi Stuart,

I have a pump that I can send you from Florida. It's out of one the US Customs Citation IIs that had blank check maintenance. I know of a few guys in Anchorage that can handle this situation there. The engine will start fine without the electric pump as the engine pump will be plenty to get the motive pumps runnings. Get as much fuel out of that wing as possible.

1) Step One: Call this guy Scott at three five two-213-0628 and give him your credit card. The pump is $750 plus whatever fees/shipping. If you're lucky, it can get there Saturday.

2) Step Two: Call this mechanic in Anchorage Aaron at nine zero seven-781-3220. He should be able to do it. If he can't or doesn't know someone call this guy Gerry at nine zero seven-223-1012. He owns a Citation and lives in Anchorage; he should know a guy.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 500/550 folks, help! Stuck in Alaska
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2018, 13:07 
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Joined: 04/12/09
Posts: 33
Post Likes: +6
Location: Auckland New Zealand
Aircraft: C501,206 Amphib,C421
mike

Thank you. That’s hugely helpful. I’ve passed the info on just now to the ferry guys in Alaska so see how they go.

Will let you know,

Thanks

Stuart


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 500/550 folks, help! Stuck in Alaska
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2018, 07:34 
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Joined: 04/12/09
Posts: 33
Post Likes: +6
Location: Auckland New Zealand
Aircraft: C501,206 Amphib,C421
Mike

Thanks for all your help last night. They got the engine started no issues, and took a decision to go back to California to replumb the ferry system taking the pump out of the loop. May well need still need to replace the pump though, so when I get a pirep will know, and make the call if need to replace

Am I right in thinking you own a widgeon too?

Best. And thanks again,

Stuart C


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 500/550 folks, help! Stuck in Alaska
PostPosted: 27 Oct 2018, 22:50 
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Joined: 05/05/09
Posts: 4946
Post Likes: +4785
Aircraft: G44, C501, C55, R66
Username Protected wrote:
Mike

Thanks for all your help last night. They got the engine started no issues, and took a decision to go back to California to replumb the ferry system taking the pump out of the loop. May well need still need to replace the pump though, so when I get a pirep will know, and make the call if need to replace

Am I right in thinking you own a widgeon too?

Best. And thanks again,

Stuart C


My guess is the pump is burning up because it wasn't designed for constant usage in the transfer situation you have. I'm coming to New Zealand in February, how can I get hooked up with a 172 or Cherokee or whatever and explore your incredible country?

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 500/550 folks, help! Stuck in Alaska
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2018, 07:16 
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Joined: 04/12/09
Posts: 33
Post Likes: +6
Location: Auckland New Zealand
Aircraft: C501,206 Amphib,C421
Mike PM me

Im sure I can sort you out. Be delighted to help

you might be able to ride in the 551...if it ever gets here ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 500/550 folks, help! Stuck in Alaska
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2018, 07:19 
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Joined: 04/12/09
Posts: 33
Post Likes: +6
Location: Auckland New Zealand
Aircraft: C501,206 Amphib,C421
An luc

thanks for reaching out to the iceman. love reading about his exploits.

one day i will get to have some citation ones in NZ..hopefully!


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 500/550 folks, help! Stuck in Alaska
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2018, 08:20 
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Joined: 06/08/12
Posts: 12587
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Company: Mayo Clinic
Location: Rochester, MN
Aircraft: Planeless in RST
Username Protected wrote:
An luc

thanks for reaching out to the iceman. love reading about his exploits.

one day i will get to have some citation ones in NZ..hopefully!


Oh I’m sure you will have lots of adventures in her.
Used to live in Auckland from 76 to 81, with stops in Fiji. Learned to fly way back when there at the Manakau Flying club. Ardmore. Brian Cox was my instructor who taught many Air NZ Pilots to fly. Touch and go’s at Mangere in a 152!
I assume Australia and Fiji in CJ range. Now that would be fun!

_________________
BFR 8/18; IPC 8/18


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 500/550 folks, help! Stuck in Alaska
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2018, 10:02 
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Joined: 03/09/13
Posts: 910
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Location: Byron Bay,NSW Australia
Aircraft: CE525,PA31
Username Protected wrote:
I assume Australia and Fiji in CJ range. Now that would be fun!


They usually are one way but with the prevailing winds can be a stretch. Luckily there are islands to stop at. Going FIJI to AUS you can stop at Noumea. Going to NZ to AUS you can stop at Norfolk Island.

I did trip to FIJI late last year and I’m heading to NZ in the CJ on the 27th December.

Stuart I’ll PM you for some tips on flying around NZ. I see you have a different transition level and crusising levels then what we do in AUS.

Andrew


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 500/550 folks, help! Stuck in Alaska
PostPosted: 28 Oct 2018, 13:42 
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Joined: 06/08/12
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Company: Mayo Clinic
Location: Rochester, MN
Aircraft: Planeless in RST
My memory probably failing me, but I think we used the NOSE acronym. North Odd, South even for altitudes. Not East west like we do here

_________________
BFR 8/18; IPC 8/18


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 500/550 folks, help! Stuck in Alaska
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2018, 07:42 
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Joined: 04/12/09
Posts: 33
Post Likes: +6
Location: Auckland New Zealand
Aircraft: C501,206 Amphib,C421
Luc

Things have changed A LOT since the 80s. Auckland wasn’t 1 million people by then...it’s now 1.7 million. A lot of us have discovered that’s it’s nice to live on the edge away from a lot of the nonsense. Regretfully the flip is it’s a long way from service centres, parts suppliers etc ectc. Yes and we do use the follow your nose anacronym.

Fiji you could get to ok, but you would have a heart attack at the landing and handling fees there now. We go there quite a bit; Air New Zealand is fine.

Andrew will get back to you

Best

Stuart


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 Post subject: Re: Citation 500/550 folks, help! Stuck in Alaska
PostPosted: 29 Oct 2018, 21:47 
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Joined: 06/17/14
Posts: 4894
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Location: KJYO
Aircraft: C-182, GA-7
Username Protected wrote:
<snip>
Fiji you could get to ok, but you would have a heart attack at the landing and handling fees there now. We go there quite a bit; Air New Zealand is fine.
<snip>

Holy hot potatoes! Landing fee is $14k with another $8k for customs and immigration if you need it!?!?!?

Laucala-Island-Fiji-resort-The-island-with-a-14-000-landing-fee
https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/destinat ... anding-fee


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