24 Apr 2024, 19:41 [ UTC - 5; DST ]
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet? Posted: 10 Nov 2018, 22:28 |
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Joined: 12/14/08 Posts: 42 Post Likes: +23
Aircraft: PIlatus PC-12/47
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Username Protected wrote: Can you elaborate on why the 560 MX cost is less than the CJ3 or PC12? Here's an example: Just had 2 static wicks and one mounting plate for one of the wicks replaced on my PC-12. Total cost about $1,900. Two static wicks! This was done at an authorized Pilatus service center, which is -- for all practical purposes -- the only place you can go with a PC-12 for MX except for simple stuff like changing tires. A third party can't buy those really special Swiss authorized static wicks. If you went to an official Cessna service center for a 560, it might cost about the same but -- the point is -- you can get the parts and have a competent non-Cessna shop do the work for a fraction of this cost. I'm sure the work done on replacing these two static wicks is very well done. I have never had cause to complain about the quality of the work done at the Pilatus certified service center. But, my god, you pay for it with a PC-12. And you don't have to, unless you choose to, with a Cessna product.
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet? Posted: 10 Nov 2018, 22:38 |
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Joined: 12/14/08 Posts: 42 Post Likes: +23
Aircraft: PIlatus PC-12/47
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Username Protected wrote: With Pilatus, you go to where they tell you to go and you pay for Swiss precision....
I don't feel my Pilatus is expensive to maintain. I like swiss precision. You can "feel" however you like.
The guy who manages my PC-12 shows me the invoices for managing a number of Cessna jets of various vintages. Apples to apples, unless doing the work at a Cessna Service Center, the cost is way less for the Cessna products.
RE. "Swiss Precision". I used to wear a Swiss "aviator" watch. It wasn't (nearly) as precise as the cheap quartz thing I now have. And, I had to wind it.
Not giving up my PC-12. But, I'm not a fanboy either.
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet? Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 07:24 |
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Joined: 07/23/09 Posts: 1071 Post Likes: +564 Location: KSJT
Aircraft: PC-24 Citabria 7GCBC
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Username Protected wrote: The guy who manages my PC-12 shows me the invoices for managing a number of Cessna jets of various vintages. Apples to apples, unless doing the work at a Cessna Service Center, the cost is way less for the Cessna products.
ahh, he just wanted to get you hooked on the jet crack. What he didn’t show you was the frequency such invoices. I leased a 560 Ultra and it was having something done to it every month. I take my PC-12 in once a year. But at the end of the day, I would not discourage any friend from buying a jet.
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet? Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 09:00 |
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Joined: 08/05/11 Posts: 5303 Post Likes: +2423
Aircraft: BE-55
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Username Protected wrote: Maybe two hours. One way.....
And you technically don’t have to hire a pilot. All you need is a friend you like to be around for days on end who is also available and can afford to go the places you want to go when you want to go for as long as you want to go with a PPL, ME, and IFR. Any way you look at owning a jet you’ll have a mentor pilot for sure for a while. Top is PC12; bottom is LJ45XR. FIFY No doubt the Lear 45 is a game changer..... what do I do on my 4-5 250-500NM flights per week I already do? Call my buddy every time? It's not going to happen. I fly way too much. You also notice on your chart how much faster the PC12 gets when you fly it lower into the headwinds. Probably 5 hours. Man that Lear 45 burns some gas. What's the full fuel payload?
“. The Learjet 45 has the direct operating costs of a light jet, like a Cessna Citation II (around $1,800 an hour); flies a lot higher (51,000 feet), faster (534 mph) and farther (2,032 nautical miles with four passengers and IFR reserves); and has a more comfortable cabin (410 cubic feet). Payload with full fuel is a respectable 1,600 pounds, and up to 500 pounds of baggage can be split between nose and aft compartments
Bombardier began delivery of a longer range variant, the Learjet 45XR, in 2004. The aircraft features a 1,000-pound increase in maximum takeoff weight, slightly more fuel capacity and a pair of Honeywell TFE731-20-BR engines that reduce balanced field length at higher temperatures, improve time to climb and deliver better high-speed cruise. Under certain circumstances, the Learjet 45XR's performance improvement is dramatic. For example, out of Aspen, Colo., the XR with eight passengers aboard will fly almost 1,000 nautical miles farther than a standard Learjet 45. “. Business Traveler
Yes. Under a lot of circumstances two pilots suck. Short flights, Repo flights, personal flights. Yet under a lot of conditions they are a game changer. Cost of aquistion, work load, taking care of ground crap, etc. Hard to justify something like a Lear without business implications and also short flights. Personally I think the 12 is overall your cup of tea.
Awesome plane with antiquated avionics. I Guess that’s ok. It’s what I’m used to. Lear built the 70 and 75 around the 45 just put the G5000 in it. Extra 3-4 million. Part 25 aircraft.
PS. One can pretty much rent a SIC.
_________________ “ Embrace the Suck”
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet? Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 10:15 |
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Joined: 09/16/10 Posts: 8892 Post Likes: +1956
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Username Protected wrote: the only place you can go with a PC-12 for MX except for simple stuff like changing tires. You need a special jack adapter. I heard of one shop wanting to change a tire but could not purchase (refused) the adapter. So welded one up. Asking....do the labour rates compare on other turbine shops?
_________________ If you think nobody cares about you. Try not paying your income tax.
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet? Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 10:46 |
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Joined: 05/23/08 Posts: 6059 Post Likes: +703 Location: CMB7, Ottawa, Canada
Aircraft: TBM - C185 - T206
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Cannot talk about the Pilatus but the TBM shop Corporate Aircraft on your field John uses the same labour rate as other aircraft. The TBM maintenance is mostly labour for inspections. Username Protected wrote: the only place you can go with a PC-12 for MX except for simple stuff like changing tires. You need a special jack adapter. I heard of one shop wanting to change a tire but could not purchase (refused) the adapter. So welded one up. Asking....do the labour rates compare on other turbine shops?
_________________ Former Baron 58 owner. Pistons engines are for tractors.
Marc Bourdon
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet? Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 10:46 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26431 Post Likes: +13066 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: Here's an example:
Just had 2 static wicks and one mounting plate for one of the wicks replaced on my PC-12.
Total cost about $1,900.
Two static wicks!
This was done at an authorized Pilatus service center, which is -- for all practical purposes -- the only place you can go with a PC-12 for MX except for simple stuff like changing tires. A third party can't buy those really special Swiss authorized static wicks.
If you went to an official Cessna service center for a 560, it might cost about the same but -- the point is -- you can get the parts and have a competent non-Cessna shop do the work for a fraction of this cost.
I'm sure the work done on replacing these two static wicks is very well done. I have never had cause to complain about the quality of the work done at the Pilatus certified service center. But, my god, you pay for it with a PC-12.
And you don't have to, unless you choose to, with a Cessna product. I've never had to replace a static wick. The Pilatus service center is on my home field. I don't want an airplane I have to fly somewhere to have serviced. That cost alone is more than $1900 static wicks. I know that's not the case for everyone but is for me.
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet? Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 10:49 |
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Joined: 01/29/08 Posts: 26431 Post Likes: +13066 Location: Walterboro, SC. KRBW
Aircraft: PC12NG
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Username Protected wrote: The guy who manages my PC-12 Why do you need a manager? I manage my own. There's nothing to it. Fire him and you just saved yourself a boat load.
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet? Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 17:14 |
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Joined: 08/05/11 Posts: 5303 Post Likes: +2423
Aircraft: BE-55
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Username Protected wrote: Don't know where the above Citation II operating rates came from. Including Crew? We dry leased for $1,000 per hour two years ago. I think the V was $1,100. Dry? Add fuel.
_________________ “ Embrace the Suck”
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet? Posted: 11 Nov 2018, 18:14 |
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Joined: 05/29/14 Posts: 2886 Post Likes: +2940 Location: CEA3
Aircraft: PA24-260, C340 Ram 7
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Username Protected wrote: Can you elaborate on why the 560 MX cost is less than the CJ3 or PC12? Here's an example: Just had 2 static wicks and one mounting plate for one of the wicks replaced on my PC-12. Total cost about $1,900. Two static wicks! This was done at an authorized Pilatus service center, which is -- for all practical purposes -- the only place you can go with a PC-12 for MX except for simple stuff like changing tires. A third party can't buy those really special Swiss authorized static wicks. If you went to an official Cessna service center for a 560, it might cost about the same but -- the point is -- you can get the parts and have a competent non-Cessna shop do the work for a fraction of this cost. I'm sure the work done on replacing these two static wicks is very well done. I have never had cause to complain about the quality of the work done at the Pilatus certified service center. But, my god, you pay for it with a PC-12. And you don't have to, unless you choose to, with a Cessna product.
You also said base.
If it’s anything like a Boeings, those bases are bounded to structure using special silver enhanced stuff to make the base conduct to structure. It also has a relatively short shelf life. So you kinda have to compare apples to apples.
Murray
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet? Posted: 16 Nov 2018, 00:31 |
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Joined: 06/23/09 Posts: 2300 Post Likes: +707 Location: KIKK......Kankakee, Illinois
Aircraft: TBM 850
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I get the importance of single pilot. But.......90% of the time my wife (she’s a pilot) and I usually fly together. I was looking at Lear 40/45......wow........hard to beat their performance.?!? And the acquisition costs are same as a TBM? Now I dont know anything about Lear’s. Operating costs etc probably beyond reach........ looks like an awesome bird
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Post subject: Re: Phenom 100E , Cessna M2 or Hondajet? Posted: 16 Nov 2018, 06:57 |
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Joined: 08/05/11 Posts: 5303 Post Likes: +2423
Aircraft: BE-55
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Username Protected wrote: I get the importance of single pilot. But.......90% of the time my wife (she’s a pilot) and I usually fly together. I was looking at Lear 40/45......wow........hard to beat their performance.?!? And the acquisition costs are same as a TBM? Now I dont know anything about Lear’s. Operating costs etc probably beyond reach........ looks like an awesome bird Same thoughts and situation. Yet the avionics are antiquated. Have to have a portable ADS-b in and IPad for much of a moving map. Ridiculous.
_________________ “ Embrace the Suck”
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