Yeah. For a price.

I think the 12's perfect for you. You're smart enough you don't want to just blow good money way. Jets going to be the deepest black hole you've ever dumped money into. With no real return i suspect. the 12's cheap cheap cheap compared to a jet that has any legs. Its easy to operate. Its safe as hell. Holds a ton. If anything hold out for the 24. But haul pickles or chickens or something every once in a while.

100%

www.planesense.com

Not legally or safely

Maybe not today but I've done it many times before.

Also, you can fly IFR at 16k'.

Maybe not today but I've done it many times before.

Also, you can fly IFR at 16k'.

Yes I agree and that's the conclusion I always come to.

The other alternative is a used CJ3 and maybe tell some folks they'll have to fly commercial. All I really need is a CJ3.[/quote]

Used 3 is a good deal. Put the fusion in it and you’re set.

Dang Paul. Almost hit the illustrious SETP 400 knots ground speed yesterday. I would have hit headwinds both directions.

Jason, I don't think you have all the facts on this.

Like you, I'm a PC-12 owner and fan. But:

Single pilot exemption is available for the 560 series. About a half day of extra training above/beyond normal transition/type rating. You would seem to qualify in terms of experience. You've previously written you expect to get a jet "some time" so this (and the additional continuing extra training) should not be a big consideration.

Also, in the original 560, the Garmin 600 TXi is available for a very reasonable price ($150k-ish). (Go talk to Micah at EPPS - they are installing a new 600 in a 560 right now as of the date of this post).

For the later 560 series (Ultra and Encore), the Garmin 650/750 is available now. Rob at Jettech (which has the STC for the existing legacy 560 upgrade) says that he expects the 600 TXi to be available for the remainder of the 560 series in 2019 with the Garmin autopilot to follow for all shortly thereafter. Arguably, there's an arbitrage opportunity available now to get an Ultra with an eye to adding the Garmin system in a year. (Jason, you've previously written you prefer Garmin).

I've checked all the numbers and given that PC-12 owners are effectively required to pay retail for (excellent) maintenance of the PC-12 (I do mine at EPPS too), you can purchase a legacy 560 for half the cost, two-thirds the annual MX cost and 60% more DOC (40% more per mile).

That legacy 560 does everything a CJ3 does (more actually as the cabin is more like a CJ4) at less the MX but 1/3 more fuel burn. If you are flying less than 200 hours annually, it's a no brainer for an owner/pilot who can't deduct large portions of the costs and wants a capable and well supported jet and who doesn't mind when the aircraft was originally built and delivered.

Compared to the PC-12, you trade historically excellent resale and the ability to land at Staniel Key and similar short fields (unless you are willing to disregard standards and assume your thrust reversers are always going to deploy).

But, otherwise, the 560 series is a more than adequate replacement for the PC-12 in terms of range and load on a (fully amortized) dollars to miles basis except for:

1. Cabin size (560, like all Citations, is a small cabin tube).
2. Loading convenience (that big door in the PC-12 is really great!)
3. Short/rough landing and take off.
4. Exterior/interior appearance (assuming you don't make those investments).

Also, the safety record for this Cessna series is slightly better than the (excellent) PC-12 record too!

So, why don't I trade mine? Answer:

1. I've debugged my PC-12 and would prefer to avoid the process with a new old plane.
2. It does the mission at a reasonable per mile cost (even though slow for the 900 NM trips I do frequently).
3. Inertia and laziness regarding sale and purchase and transition training.
4. I do go to short fields (like Staniel) fairly frequently and I like not worrying about going to 2/2/2 fields in the winter otherwise without concern too.

But, I'd put a million in the bank if I traded.

Those are my excuses.

Jason, you seem to be a facts and reason based person. Why are you disregarding this option?

Does the cockpit look like Apollo 11? Adding a screen or 2 probably doesn't wipe out all the little round dials. Do I have to adjust pressurization and a million other things that I don't have to do in PC12?

I just looked at them on Controller. All for sale have thousands of hours on the airframe. No trailing link gear. It looks like something off the TV show Dallas. It's not gonna work for me.

The Falcon 20 I flew on recently was 100 years old also but at least it was a good looking airplane.

Those are my reasons also. I'd also add that a big reason I'd buy the jet and the reason many people buy the jet is "image". The Citation V just isn't a good looking airplane.

Pose the same question to all the Phenom 100 owners. Why buy the Phenom 100 with 1000NM range and 400LB full fuel payload????? Image! Phenom 100 is a great looking airplane with a fat cat airstair door. To non-airplane owners it looks like a GV.

Jason, I don't think you have all the facts on this.

Like you, I'm a PC-12 owner and fan. But:

Single pilot exemption is available for the 560 series. About a half day of extra training above/beyond normal transition/type rating. You would seem to qualify in terms of experience. You've previously written you expect to get a jet "some time" so this (and the additional continuing extra training) should not be a big consideration.

Also, in the original 560, the Garmin 600 TXi is available for a very reasonable price ($150k-ish). (Go talk to Micah at EPPS - they are installing a new 600 in a 560 right now as of the date of this post).

For the later 560 series (Ultra and Encore), the Garmin 650/750 is available now. Rob at Jettech (which has the STC for the existing legacy 560 upgrade) says that he expects the 600 TXi to be available for the remainder of the 560 series in 2019 with the Garmin autopilot to follow for all shortly thereafter. Arguably, there's an arbitrage opportunity available now to get an Ultra with an eye to adding the Garmin system in a year. (Jason, you've previously written you prefer Garmin).

I've checked all the numbers and given that PC-12 owners are effectively required to pay retail for (excellent) maintenance of the PC-12 (I do mine at EPPS too), you can purchase a legacy 560 for half the cost, two-thirds the annual MX cost and 60% more DOC (40% more per mile).

That legacy 560 does everything a CJ3 does (more actually as the cabin is more like a CJ4) at less the MX but 1/3 more fuel burn. If you are flying less than 200 hours annually, it's a no brainer for an owner/pilot who can't deduct large portions of the costs and wants a capable and well supported jet and who doesn't mind when the aircraft was originally built and delivered.

Compared to the PC-12, you trade historically excellent resale and the ability to land at Staniel Key and similar short fields (unless you are willing to disregard standards and assume your thrust reversers are always going to deploy).

But, otherwise, the 560 series is a more than adequate replacement for the PC-12 in terms of range and load on a (fully amortized) dollars to miles basis except for:

1. Cabin size (560, like all Citations, is a small cabin tube).
2. Loading convenience (that big door in the PC-12 is really great!)
3. Short/rough landing and take off.
4. Exterior/interior appearance (assuming you don't make those investments).

Also, the safety record for this Cessna series is slightly better than the (excellent) PC-12 record too!

So, why don't I trade mine? Answer:

1. I've debugged my PC-12 and would prefer to avoid the process with a new old plane.
2. It does the mission at a reasonable per mile cost (even though slow for the 900 NM trips I do frequently).
3. Inertia and laziness regarding sale and purchase and transition training.
4. I do go to short fields (like Staniel) fairly frequently and I like not worrying about going to 2/2/2 fields in the winter otherwise without concern too.

But, I'd put a million in the bank if I traded.

Those are my excuses.

Jason, you seem to be a facts and reason based person. Why are you disregarding this option?

I shared this with JH I (dad) who had been working in the bizjet world since the late 60's (pilot thru management into consulting, and now managing again "for fun"...at 79)

Thought you all might like to see his reply:



I'm sure you knew all of that, but I am posting for the benefit of others.