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 Post subject: Re: Eclipse takes a dive again
PostPosted: 01 Nov 2018, 08:47 
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Username Protected wrote:
In the real world parts are available and planes are being supported and warranty and maintenance programs are still in effect. The biggest rub is the time to get some parts but that seems to be getting better.

I am taking my plane to Boca on Monday for service and the costs will be covered by Eclipse


That's a big rub if you have million(s) invested in a jet you can't fly for weeks and months at a time. That's the situation for a number of people apparently. It may not have happened to you and I'm happy for that but it's a bit like playing Russian roulette...

I hope One, or it's successor company, survives to support your plane but a closed ecosystem for a tiny fleet makes no sense except for throwaway money as Michael suggests.

_________________
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 Post subject: Re: Eclipse takes a dive again
PostPosted: 01 Nov 2018, 09:41 
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Username Protected wrote:
In the real world parts are available and planes are being supported and warranty and maintenance programs are still in effect. The biggest rub is the time to get some parts but that seems to be getting better.

I am taking my plane to Boca on Monday for service and the costs will be covered by Eclipse


That's a big rub if you have million(s) invested in a jet you can't fly for weeks and months at a time. That's the situation for a number of people apparently. It may not have happened to you and I'm happy for that but it's a bit like playing Russian roulette...

I hope One, or it's successor company, survives to support your plane but a closed ecosystem for a tiny fleet makes no sense except for throwaway money as Michael suggests.

Tony
Since you are still looking at EJOPA there’s still hope for you :bud:

I agree that the parts situation has been unacceptable but their plan is to sell planes and that requires support of the fleet so this issue will be addressed

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 Post subject: Re: Eclipse takes a dive again
PostPosted: 01 Nov 2018, 09:42 
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Username Protected wrote:
In the real world parts are available and planes are being supported and warranty and maintenance programs are still in effect. The biggest rub is the time to get some parts but that seems to be getting better.

I am taking my plane to Boca on Monday for service and the costs will be covered by Eclipse


That's a big rub if you have million(s) invested in a jet you can't fly for weeks and months at a time. That's the situation for a number of people apparently. It may not have happened to you and I'm happy for that but it's a bit like playing Russian roulette...

I hope One, or it's successor company, survives to support your plane but a closed ecosystem for a tiny fleet makes no sense except for throwaway money as Michael suggests.


It doesn't matter what Eclipse does going forward as this is NOT a solvable problem. There's no mass demand for $3-3.5 million new mini-jets. With no new market, there's going to be a parts supply issue.

Put yourself in the shoes of a supplier. Suppliers were sold on the premise of building 1000 units per year. The suppliers including Pratt geared up to make high volume yet they ended up selling under 300 units total. I don't know this for a fact but I'm fairly certain that there are no new Eclipse parts being made. I know there are no more motors, probes, plastic windows, and servos being made.

You are going to see an increasingly smaller supply of Eclipse critical (read high failure rate) items such as probes, windshields, servos, actuators, screens, etc. Sure you are going to be able to find some way to repair some of these items but eventually you are going to need a new part and one day that part is not going to be available at any cost.

There are guys that are willing to rent a pitot probe for $500 a week. The sadness and absurdity of this situation will allow one to draw their own conclusions about the long term viability of these airplanes.

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 Post subject: Re: Eclipse takes a dive again
PostPosted: 01 Nov 2018, 10:12 
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It’s actually kind of funny while you make untrue allegations you acknowledge almost 300 planes are in the fleet. That size fleet will be supported in some fashion like the MU,s and Commanders have been.

And in the last year Resurgent Aircraft Solutions has brought to the market improved parts and is working on improved more reliable probes. They know the planes weak points and are methodically delivering solutions to them.

So while I have no idea the size of the market for a Garmin Eclipse the rest of the fleet will keep flying


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 Post subject: Re: Eclipse takes a dive again
PostPosted: 01 Nov 2018, 10:47 
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Username Protected wrote:
It’s actually kind of funny while you make untrue allegations you acknowledge almost 300 planes are in the fleet. That size fleet will be supported in some fashion like the MU,s and Commanders have been.

And in the last year Resurgent Aircraft Solutions has brought to the market improved parts and is working on improved more reliable probes. They know the planes weak points and are methodically delivering solutions to them.

So while I have no idea the size of the market for a Garmin Eclipse the rest of the fleet will keep flying


Please point out the untrue allegations I have made and I will correct them if necessary. My predictions on the bankruptcy and supportability of Eclipses in the past has been spot on accurate. You may not like my predictions but untrue is something these comments are not.

Resurgent Aviation is definitely doing good things for Eclipse owners but offering servos (must buy set of 3) for $50,000 or offering to repair your broken computer for $30,000 is not exactly my definition of reasonable support. Glass windshields, $80K (not a RAS product). Set of new probes; probably will be $60K+. I just remembered the knobs on the screens are $10K to fix every time one of them goes out. Does anyone believe that a single source supplier of grossly overpriced parts is a reasonable solution to supporting an aircraft?


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 Post subject: Re: Eclipse takes a dive again
PostPosted: 01 Nov 2018, 11:07 
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Username Protected wrote:
I know there are no more probes, plastic windows, and servos being made.

New probes are being made and improved ones are on the way and we might have a solution from both RAS and Eclipse

The reason for no new plastic windows is that they where high failure rate so improved glass windows are available

This spring I got a brand new rudder servo

RAS’s mission is to eliminate the Eclipse’s weak points and they will get it done.


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 Post subject: Re: Eclipse takes a dive again
PostPosted: 02 Nov 2018, 21:03 
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Username Protected wrote:
Tony
Since you are still looking at EJOPA there’s still hope for you :bud:


:coffee:

I'd say I'm hopeless! At least in regard to Eclipse. I do find that joining owner's type clubs is very helpful in learning more about a given airplane. It's incredibly cheap education. I belong to MMOPA, EJOPA, TBMOPA, Citation Jet Pilots, the National and American Waco Clubs (and would belong to Premier Jet Owners but they foolishly do not allow non owner operators to join - which hinders would be owner/operators from learning more and becoming more willing to take their depreciating assets off their hands). One thing I'll note from devouring information in these places is that 1) everyone loves their airplane and 2) there is no similar concern about factory support etc. like there is on EJOPA anywhere else. I hope it all works out for Eclipse owners.

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 Post subject: Re: Eclipse takes a dive again
PostPosted: 02 Nov 2018, 21:08 
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There is a national waco club AND an American waco club?

What fascinating petty squabble led to that schism?


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 Post subject: Re: Eclipse takes a dive again
PostPosted: 03 Nov 2018, 08:21 
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As I understand it from the pres of the American Waco Club there was a spat a few years ago when some objected to Waco Classics landing at the field during the annual event because they weren’t “real” Waco’s. It makes no sense as I was a NWC member when I had a classic, not to mention the fact that most “real” Waco’s have all, or mostly, new parts. There is probably more to the story than that. People are weird sometimes (but I’ve found lots of nice people, and great information in both place).

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 Post subject: Re: Eclipse takes a dive again
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 07:20 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WboggjN_G-4


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 Post subject: Re: Eclipse takes a dive again
PostPosted: 04 Nov 2018, 09:15 
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Location: Oklahoma City - PWA/Calistoga KSTS
Aircraft: UMF3, UBF 2, P180 II
:coffee:

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Never enough!


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